Bitwig - Pain Points

[pboy]

One thing that I miss every day is a way to drag and drop/move clips in the arrange window from one track to another without the timing to slip. I remember back when I mainly used Logic, there was an option to prevent dragging/moving diagonally. It is such a time saver to never having to zoom in extremely close to double-check the timing after having moved/duplicated a clip.

I think a safety setting like this should also apply to notes inside note editors. And it should be an option by the preferences.

[stash98]

The lack of clip legato beats all of the points mentioned in the op for me. A really necessary feature I think.

I’m also dying of parameter snapshots like in Maschine. More than a nice to have, itnwould really change performance and arrangement I think.

You can get "parameter snapshot" behavior by using FX Selector, Instrument Selector, and Note Selector. In fact; I'd wager that use case is *exactly* what those three devices were designed for. (Although I use them for a different use case too.)

Start with your main Synth or FX Device chain/rack, etc. in the appropriate Selector device. Set up that first layer in the device the way you want. Then do CTRL + D to dupe that layer. Make your desired parameter changes in that 2nd layer. Then dupe a third layer and make more param changes, and so on.

You now have a device with multiple layers, where each layer is a separate "snapshot" of the same basic thing, but with various parameter changes in each layer/snapshot.

Then use an automation lane to flip back and forth through the layers/snapshots.

Wow. So if I understand this correctly, in one lane (or track) you can have multiple instances of the same synth set to different parameters and then control which one turns on and when via automation? So essentially you could have a lead that changes presets or oscialltors etc without losing the original sound you came up with?

Yes! Plus what Xbitz said just above. And it's worth noting that tails will fully play out from the previous lane, even after you switch to a new lane

That is so rad! A couple unrelated questions ( i think im finally switching over soon):

If i was using a chorder like cthulhu is that routed better than ableton? What i mean is in ableton you have to put it on its own track and then route into the midi track you want to affect. I would prefer to drop it in directly on the synth track like a regular midi device. Is that possible?

Also with multi out instruments like a drum machine. In the demo, I enabled multi out in the vsti drum machine and bitwig gave me faders for each one. They looked like they were in a group though and the master channel still put out audio. How does that work? What i want to do is record each drum part to it’s channel (kick hat snare). And also can it record them in mono?

Ableton makes everything stero for some reason

[jonljacobi]

As to which signal does where... If for example, you're using EZ Drummer, you need to assign each drum to the output you want using its mixer. Most plug-ins do it similarly.

[stash98]

As to which signal does where... If for example, you're using EZ Drummer, you need to assign each drum to the output you want using its mixer. Most plug-ins do it similarly.

I am using Vprom. In the settings I hit multi out and Bitwig instantly expands the outputs, which is awesome. I am just not sure if I need to do anything from there to record each drum. And also if it will record in mono.

[jonljacobi]

I think you can reroute the outputs of the individual plugin outputs to other audio tracks.

[jonljacobi]

The scroll bar in the arranger, as well as the timeline. It's too sensitive and I wind up scrolling when zooming and zooming when scrolling unless I hold a modifier key. It doesn't page when you click next to the scroll handle, it jumps according to some formula I don't care about, and haven't quite figured out yet.

The jump shortcuts don't move the view to where you send them, even if the view follows playhead function is enabled. The previous cue marker doesn't take you back more than one marker if the song is playing, because it doesn't take into account that the playhead has moved after you jump back.

I have never seen anything so non-standard in my life. I guess it makes sense in some ways, but geez, the behavior can be really befuddling until you realize what's going on. Personally, I think it's overthought and overwrought.

[Yokai]

The scroll bar in the arranger, as well as the timeline. It's too sensitive and I wind up scrolling when zooming and zooming when scrolling unless I hold a modifier key. It doesn't page when you click next to the scroll handle, it jumps according to some formula I don't care about, and haven't quite figured out yet.

The jump shortcuts don't move the view to where you send them, even if the view follows playhead function is enabled. The previous cue marker doesn't take you back more than one marker if the song is playing, because it doesn't take into account that the playhead has moved after you jump back.

I have never seen anything so non-standard in my life. I guess it makes sense in some ways, but geez, the behavior can be really befuddling until you realize what's going on. Personally, I think it's overthought and overwrought.

The keyboard-based zooming behavior in 2.5 is much more friendly. Also, right now in 2.4 you might be happier using the CTRL + Scroll Wheel to Zoom and ALT + Scroll Wheel to scroll from anywhere inside any view.

[jonljacobi]

Thanks. I have gotten used to it, barely, though those are handy. But I go back to the days of DOS (and well beyond) when you had to learn a new set of behaviors for every program. It was a huge time suck learning them, and cost companies fortunes for training. A huge selling point for Windows and the Mac were that they standardized basic actions so that users could concentrate more on the task they wanted to accomplish rather than waste a lot of time simply learning how to use the program.

In this case, I probably wouldn't complain if the drag/scroll/magnify algorithm weren't so touchy. Adjust the thresholds and it would be a lot easier to live with because it would behave normally unless you were completely spastic. That's got to be like a 1 minute fix.

Regardless, being forced to use a modifier key to invoke the standard OS behavior irks me and then some. Microsoft publishes a developer's guide, as does Apple. Both preach employing, and not forcing users to relearn basic interface behaviors. Who knows how many confused users don't purchase a program because the demo threw a curveball at them right out of the gate? I've already wasted more time relearning stuff than a more efficient (that's giving them the benefit of the doubt) method could possibly save me. Sorry, that just really annoys me.

I feel better now... Thanks again for the tips, though I can't find the shortcuts by searching "scroll".

[jonljacobi]

BTW, I should mention that these WTF moments are more irritating because the program is brilliant in so many ways.

[jonljacobi]

Another pain point. Loop recording in arranger. Unlike Logic or Live (others?), undo with Bitwig undoes everything, not just the latest loop. And invariably, the last bit of loop recording overhangs the previous "take". As undo deletes everything, to keep the last take, you must delete that little last bit, then stretch the previous take forward. Not convenient in the least.

Logic does take lanes, and Live lets you undo/redo takes in order so you can at least hear the previous takes.

[Yokai]

Another pain point. Loop recording in arranger. Unlike Logic or Live (others?), undo with Bitwig undoes everything, not just the latest loop. And invariably, the last bit of loop recording overhangs the previous "take". As undo deletes everything, to keep the last take, you must delete that little last bit, then stretch the previous take forward. Not convenient in the least.

Logic does take lanes, and Live lets you undo/redo takes in order so you can at least hear the previous takes.

Adapt or die. (and I mean that in fun; not as an insult)

Seriously though, in both Bitwig and in Ableton, "loop recording" in the arranger works in a funny way. It LOOKs like the clip is constantly being overwritten, but it's NOT. Go ahead and do a loop recording in the arranger for like 3.5 loops and then stop recording. Next, double-click the clip (which looks f**ked up and split in two, right?) What do you see down in the Event Editor? Zoom OUT and take a close look.

The entire take (all 3.5 loops of it) is all there in the core EVENT that is inside the CLIP. You gotta understand Bitwig's distinction between CLIP containers and the EVENTS inside them. You can reposition the Clip start and end points anywhere across the long recorded Event. (In 2.5 you can actually "slip drag" the event inside the clip window, even up in the arranger timeline itself.)

Ableton works exactly the same way, so those of us who came from Ableton grok this behavior immediately.

Now, there's another way to do loop recording. Over in the Clip Launcher. Investigate and experiment with what happens when you record stuff into a clip in the clip launcher, but with "Play > Post recording action / delay" set to "Record into next free slot". Experiment! This is exactly how you do "vocal comping" style recording in Bitwig. You can record 12 clips in a row, all exactly the same length, then drag them into the Arranger window stacked vertically on top of each other, and then use the multi-layer editing in the Event Editor to SEE all 12 of them stacked up vertically, then slice and mute bits from each track to make a "comped vocal take".

Bitwig is boss. It can do it all. You just have to learn how it's designed to work.

[jonljacobi]

I knew about them recording just one long clip, then presenting the last segment. I used to ad hoc comp in Live using the editor and those markers and dragging the audio back and forth, then they changed the view in 10 so that you have to continually switch to the "whole clip" view to do that. It can still be done, but it's even more of a pain.

In my particular case, I'll just switch to the DAW that makes it the least painful. And, when I loop record, I really just want the last take. I know when I've nailed it, or as close to nailing it as I'm likely to get. I don't splice as the flow is hardly ever right with fast guitar or keyboard parts. But having to delete that little snippet and drag is extra work that interrupts the creative process.

Unfortunately, at the moment, the aggregate devices (which I rely on heavily for grabbing both USB and analog input) aren't working in the Mac version (I've been over this with support the last couple of days) on my computer, so I hadn't taken the time to try the clip thing which you'd mentioned before.

Just tried it and it looks promising. I was ranting about setting the clip length, but I found the length field finally. Doh.

LOL. The scroll bar in the clip launcher behaves normally.

Again Yokai, I appreciate the sane conversation.

[jonljacobi]

That's actually quite slick. Me likey. But loop recording in the arranger should work the same way, and selecting and dragging clips doesn't really cut down on the work for my scenario, so I stand by my pain point.

[mevla]

I think I found a solution which hopefully also works for you in some way. Setup an additional Effect Track (named ' MONITOR' in this example) with the I/O configurations like this:

This works very fine and it's a simple and elegant solution.

It turns out that it's not that much of a good solution. I have a current project with 9 instrument tracks, 10 audio tracks, 3 FX tracks, plus audio processing plugins on some of those tracks. When trying to record anything new to it, on new tracks, there was a slight delay which made playing impossible. At first it was with acoustic guitar so I thought I could adjust the audio buffering but that did not work. Then I tried with a simple piantoeq piano and the delay was still there. Now that was very strange. Then I removed the two monitoring tracks (Speakers/Headphones) I had set up and restored the Master bus initial functionality. The delay disappeared.

I have another project with the same Headphones/Speakers setup which is made of 7 audio tracks, 2 instruments tracks, and only 2 FX tracks with one plugin in each, and no other plugin in the project. 2 FX plugins, 2 softsynth plugins all in all, and it goes good so far. So I presume that the solution simply does not scale.

[Coinpurse]

A few more and a repeat:

GPU acceleration to fix the sluggish interface

Shortcut to sum master into mono

Check boxes that allow bounce to new audio track to keep send data, name of track, color.. etc.

Better automation editing functionality - Automation really is a pain in Bitwig. SEE ABLETON

The 'show automation' shortcut should open the automation whether or not there is automation present.. Shouldn’t have to go click the actual track to open the drop down. This one feels like a joke to me .. How was this not thought through?

Move volume of two tracks at once without having to go to the inspector. I cannot believe this isn't a thing already.

Layer editor is buggy - It continually displays the wrong track even after I have deselected everything

CHASE MIDI EVENTS

Bitwig is still seriously flawed and it's actually quite embarrassing… yet the entire teams attention is focused on the beloved 'GRID' .. Glad they are working on the important features….