Bitwig - Pain Points

[earthwalk]

Personally I love when these randoms come in all butthurt. It puts a smile on my face.

So you aren't experiencing any of these issues? Must be your elementary use of the software.

Maybe you're assuming I share your intellectual shortcomings.

Why ask the question if you're going to assume an answer?

Some of the items on your list I don't consider issues. Most of those are seemingly your preferred way of working.

I don't have a sluggish interface, the lack of GPU acceleration isn't noticeable on my computer. I don't have your layer editing problem either, I use it often as part of a workaround for the lack of quick comping. I'd like a Chase function, optional, but it's hardly something I absolutely need to get stuff done. Plus I'm very quick to bounce because I'm that confident in what I'm doing. Moving two or more faders or em, volumes (?) at once, I haven't noticed until now because I use a hardware controller for that, for the most part. It is odd that's missing.

So you see, perhaps it's not my "elementary use of the software" but rather my ability to work with and or around any challenge in the software.

Thanks for the laugh. It's been real.

The first thing that I’ll address is the usage of the ineffective, and particularly telling denigration, “butthurt”. That sophomoric insult belies any impression of professionalism.
Expecting a modicum of reasonable industry standards does not rise to occasion of “butthurt”. But please, enjoy your foray into these junior high level written responses while pursuing, what I’m sure are, amateur attempts of music production.

[Coinpurse]

...

[Coinpurse]

...

[Coinpurse]

Personally I love when these randoms come in all butthurt. It puts a smile on my face.

So you aren't experiencing any of these issues? Must be your elementary use of the software.

Thanks for the laugh. It's been real.

Jhernandez,

You have now turned this into the proverbial d*ck measuring contest which I would only expect from an individual that utilizes the phrase 'butthurt' .. Although I do appreciate a good simpleminded insult from time to time.

First, if we take a trip back to the OP things were all good and well. The initial intent of the post was to point out a few items that I thought could make Bitwig better. The post was received well by the community and many actually agreed with my observations. Fast forward to the Coinpurse barbeque that heated things up. Once again I was making a few observations and expressing a few frustrations. Yes I'm a little frustrated! Especially with the bugs that I experience daily. As a self proclaimed intellectual I'm sure you understand that this was the point of the thread in the first place. As the title is 'Bitwig Pain Points'… Initially you conveyed a very high level assumption about my randomness to the community… Which again I'd expect from a Flintstone. If we share interest around the same thing then that doesn't make us random at all. You can jot that down if you want.

Secondly, I'm glad you have provided such luminous evidence regarding your deep knowledge of Bitwig. That really clears things up! Your explanation is pure flatulence. It's silly to think that your mere understanding of pushing faders with hardware, bouncing down tracks, and use of the layer editor proves anything. There is no value in your statement whatsoever. That being said I'm very curious to hear what you've been working on. Since your so 'confident to bounce stuff down' your sounds must be as crisp and clear as your intellect So please do share with us a little snippet of your work! I'd be happy to reciprocate. I'm sure the whole Bitwig community will learn something from the comparison.

Thirdly, just to clarify I did pay for Bitwig. I also did trial the program. I didn't start picking up the issues, bugs, and workflow ideas until a few months in. Maybe I took longer than most but I think I gave it the time it needed. Plus the investment was a drop in the bucket… But you can sensationalize the value of the investment if you so wish.

Finally, you stated that: 'perhaps it's not my "elementary use of the software" but rather my ability to work with and or around any challenge in the software.' … Let me ask you this. Why should we be challenged by the software? I guarantee that’s not the intent of the Bitwig team. Anyone who is creating anything of value in the music space would have a hard time digesting that thought. Any product developer in the world would despise that statement. So why do you settle? I'm really happy that you're satisfied though. It takes talent to be one who settles for less.. Or maybe for you it comes naturally.

Oh and by the way the GPU rendering is an issue that has been acknowledge by the Bitwig support team.. I suppose you haven't experienced it because you never break the 5+ tracks range. But don’t worry man with enough time you will get there. Good luck!

[apoclypse]

Personally I love when these randoms come in all butthurt. It puts a smile on my face.

So you aren't experiencing any of these issues? Must be your elementary use of the software.

things and such

I'm not sure if "butthurts" that "put a smile on your face" is the best way to welcome new Bitwig users. As much as I'm happy with Bitwig (don't see any GUI issues because I have low res display) I can see others' needs too

When did I join the welcoming committee? Do I look welcoming to you?

Coinpurse has been around anyways. I remember Coinpurse because of the huge "laundry list of missing components that I consider fundamental to my personal workflow". Coinpurse went from "Bitwig is an exceptional program to work with" ("with that being said" attached) to "Bitwig 3 does not excite me" to "Awesome - looking forward to those improvements!" (seemingly in the context of understanding that Bitwig may start working on solutions to old problems after The Grid) to "Bitwig is still seriously flawed and it's actually quite embarrassing… yet the entire teams attention is focused on the beloved 'GRID' .. Glad they are working on the important features…. " so yeah, full on butthurt is pretty accurate imo.

+ the many assumptions, meh.



----------------------------------------------------

I'm just curious here, did Coinpurse buy Bitwig? If so, did Coinpurse not demo the program first? If those two questions are met with a yes, why would anyone buy a program understanding it's limitations if these perceived limitations are going to cause imminent biutthurt? IMO "people who make music professionally" would be wise to thoroughly vet tools before investing in them. Not doing so, major fail and you have only yourself to blame.

If Coinpurse didn't buy Bitwig, well then, that's another level of butthurt I'm not even going to pretend I'm nutty enough to understand. Coinpurse has "submitted over 32 tickets to the Bitwig team", and that was over 3 months ago.

Me: Hey neighbor, enjoying that new Mercedes?
Neighbor: Mercedes is actually quite embarrassing! Here's list of stuff Mercedes needs to meet my needs as a professional Mazda driver! I've submitted over 32 tickkets to the Mercedes team! They'll make me a Mazda yet!
Me:

To be fair the demo is not a very good indicator of how the application will perform in a real project since you can't really save anything. I bought Bitwig based on the demo but using it on daily basis removes the halo most new things have and once you start going through the rigamarole of daily usage on real projects, bugginess, or weird behavior starts to present itself in a more pronounce way. Usually because the stakes are a bit higher "I really need to work on this project but this weird behavior that I never noticed in the demo is a PITA" etc.

I demoed Bitwig since v1 and it's only when I bought it (jumped in at v2.4) I really started to notice it's limitations. Same with S1. I demoed S1 v2 for months. I bought it and all of a sudden there was a crash on close issue that never happened before, I noticed a whole bunch of missing features coming from Logic, general bugginess etc. When you are just playing around with an application you just don't notice these things imo.

[Coinpurse]

Just for clarification here is a look at one of my projects where the performance suffers greatly. Is anyone else experiencing the same sluggishness?

https://vimeo.com/340105502

[pdxindy]

First, if we take a trip back to the OP things were all good and well. The initial intent of the post was to point out a few items that I thought could make Bitwig better. The post was received well by the community and many actually agreed with my observations.

Good learning opportunity there... when you simply describe what you want, it is well received. When you start insulting people, exclaiming how pro you are and they must be amateurs, calling the Grid a toy and so on... that's when you get a negative response.

[pdxindy]

Just for clarification here is a look at one of my projects where the performance suffers greatly. Is anyone else experiencing the same sluggishness?

https://vimeo.com/340105502

I'm not, but my projects are never as big as yours... but various other people have reported similar issues to you. Not everyone who has big projects has that result. It is for sure a real issue.

[Coinpurse]

First, if we take a trip back to the OP things were all good and well. The initial intent of the post was to point out a few items that I thought could make Bitwig better. The post was received well by the community and many actually agreed with my observations.

Good learning opportunity there... when you simply describe what you want, it is well received. When you start insulting people, exclaiming how pro you are and they must be amateurs, calling the Grid a toy and so on... that's when you get a negative response.

Note taken. However, don't be so quick to forget it was you insulted me originally. I may have come on a little strong with my opinion but I don't think your comment was warranted.

I love Bitwig. Can't we all just have some fun and talk a little sh*t

[RichardC]

Not sure if this has been said yet, but I REALLY want the ability to re-order my Audio I/Os. It seems like a simple thing--maybe there's a way which I've missed--though the lack thereof is a real PITA if you need it.
Anyone else?

+1

[JHernandez]

Personally I love when these randoms come in all butthurt. It puts a smile on my face.

So you aren't experiencing any of these issues? Must be your elementary use of the software.

Thanks for the laugh. It's been real.

Jhernandez,

You have now turned this into the proverbial d*ck measuring contest which I would only expect from an individual that utilizes the phrase 'butthurt' .. Although I do appreciate a good simpleminded insult from time to time.

No I haven't. Perhaps in your mind. Butthurt is an insult now?

First, if we take a trip back to the OP things were all good and well. The initial intent of the post was to point out a few items that I thought could make Bitwig better. The post was received well by the community and many actually agreed with my observations. Fast forward to the Coinpurse barbeque that heated things up. Once again I was making a few observations and expressing a few frustrations. Yes I'm a little frustrated! Especially with the bugs that I experience daily. As a self proclaimed intellectual I'm sure you understand that this was the point of the thread in the first place. As the title is 'Bitwig Pain Points'… Initially you conveyed a very high level assumption about my randomness to the community… Which again I'd expect from a Flintstone. If we share interest around the same thing then that doesn't make us random at all. You can jot that down if you want.

No, you came back randomly, from my point of view, after months of being absent. All I mean by that is that you're not a regular poster here like some people. (at least not under that name) That's all. There's nothing more to be read into it. It's an observation based on a combination of how I perceive a random event and a fact, not an assumption.

It's cool, you're butthurt, you admit it. That's the word I chose to playfully describe your frustration. Apparently you think it's an insult, if I understand correctly. I don't know what to say about that.

Also, I never said I was an intellectual. You made that up. I said, exactly what I said with a little troll face to hint that I wasn't all that serious. A response to your assumptive conclusion as to how I use the software.

You: "So you aren't experiencing any of these issues? Must be your elementary use of the software."

Me: "Maybe you're assuming I share your intellectual shortcomings. "

We all have them, maybe I don't share yours.

Secondly, I'm glad you have provided such luminous evidence regarding your deep knowledge of Bitwig. That really clears things up! Your explanation is pure flatulence. It's silly to think that your mere understanding of pushing faders with hardware, bouncing down tracks, and use of the layer editor proves anything. There is no value in your statement whatsoever. That being said I'm very curious to hear what you've been working on. Since your so 'confident to bounce stuff down' your sounds must be as crisp and clear as your intellect So please do share with us a little snippet of your work! I'd be happy to reciprocate. I'm sure the whole Bitwig community will learn something from the comparison.

No wonder you think this is a "proverbial d*ck measuring contest." You must use the phrase butthurt a lot then.

The value, as I see it, in my sharing my experience with some of your particular points is that I do not share your experience thus describing why I think: "Some of the items on your list I don't consider issues. Most of those are seemingly your preferred way of working." while also pointing out that I don't suffer from, thankfully, the GPU issue or the bug you described in the layer editor.

Who is turning this into a "proverbial d*ck measuring contest" contest? I'm going with . . . you are.

Thirdly, just to clarify I did pay for Bitwig. I also did trial the program. I didn't start picking up the issues, bugs, and workflow ideas until a few months in. Maybe I took longer than most but I think I gave it the time it needed. Plus the investment was a drop in the bucket… But you can sensationalize the value of the investment if you so wish.

So you bought software, knew what it had to offer, bought it anyways because it's a drop in the bucket for you, and then came back months later to complain about it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tJGk4ofc18

Finally, you stated that: 'perhaps it's not my "elementary use of the software" but rather my ability to work with and or around any challenge in the software.' … Let me ask you this. Why should we be challenged by the software? I guarantee that’s not the intent of the Bitwig team. Anyone who is creating anything of value in the music space would have a hard time digesting that thought. Any product developer in the world would despise that statement. So why do you settle? I'm really happy that you're satisfied though. It takes talent to be one who settles for less.. Or maybe for you it comes naturally.

Why should we be challenged by the software?

Should it be? Should it not be? That's not a concern of mine but I've never used any software that isn't one way or another, it's certainly is part of the learning process, for me, and in my experience there's always something I rather see done differently, it's always subjective in the case of work flow and or habits, but at the end of the day I find a way to do what I wan't to do and in the case of Bitwig, I'm getting exactly what I signed up for, like it or not.

The rest there is more little jabs and assumptions. Implying that I'm not smart because, the way I see it, I don't share your frustrations. That somehow my ability to work with what you consider "seriously flawed" (often because I ask questions of others who know more than I, or just read the available information and or forums picking up on stuff) is, as you've already made up your mind, me settling for less. That what you consider valuable, a subjective attribute, is a measure of what anyone involved in music thinks. Not only that, but you know what all the product developers in the world think as well. Mind reader this creature.

What a load of assumptive garbage. You live in your own little world don't you? Everything you think, that's just how it is, reality conforms to you.

Oh and by the way the GPU rendering is an issue that has been acknowledge by the Bitwig support team.. I suppose you haven't experienced it because you never break the 5+ tracks range. But don’t worry man with enough time you will get there. Good luck!

I know, some more than others, and for some not very much, if at all. It depends on your hardware, including what monitor/display. I start to see it slightly, when switching from arranger to mixer view @ 250+ tracks. That's as far as I took it in my tests, well beyond what I would actually use, all 5+ tracks. That's one of the first things I tested coming from a very long stint with Emagic's turned Apple's Logic series going into Bitwig. I knew what I was getting into and thus prepared accordingly. Something that comes naturally to a typical dump ass like myself durr derp.

You're talking to someone with incredible fortitude. Don't assume that's a challenge, should you be incline to, as you've clearly, by demonstration, shown you're in the habit of doing, It's not.

So about those pain points. I like some quick comping. That would be cool. I could comp my 5 tracks into one!

Still smiling.

[JHernandez]

Personally I love when these randoms come in all butthurt. It puts a smile on my face.

So you aren't experiencing any of these issues? Must be your elementary use of the software.

things and such

I'm not sure if "butthurts" that "put a smile on your face" is the best way to welcome new Bitwig users. As much as I'm happy with Bitwig (don't see any GUI issues because I have low res display) I can see others' needs too

----------------------------------------------------

I'm just curious here, did Coinpurse buy Bitwig? If so, did Coinpurse not demo the program first? If those two questions are met with a yes, why would anyone buy a program understanding it's limitations if these perceived limitations are going to cause imminent biutthurt? IMO "people who make music professionally" would be wise to thoroughly vet tools before investing in them. Not doing so, major fail and you have only yourself to blame.

To be fair the demo is not a very good indicator of how the application will perform in a real project since you can't really save anything. I bought Bitwig based on the demo but using it on daily basis removes the halo most new things have and once you start going through the rigamarole of daily usage on real projects, bugginess, or weird behavior starts to present itself in a more pronounce way. Usually because the stakes are a bit higher "I really need to work on this project but this weird behavior that I never noticed in the demo is a PITA" etc.

I demoed Bitwig since v1 and it's only when I bought it (jumped in at v2.4) I really started to notice it's limitations. Same with S1. I demoed S1 v2 for months. I bought it and all of a sudden there was a crash on close issue that never happened before, I noticed a whole bunch of missing features coming from Logic, general bugginess etc. When you are just playing around with an application you just don't notice these things imo.

I can see how that would a happen to people of all types but imo, if you're going to invest in tools on a pro level, as in this your day job and the work needs to get done period, it would be wise to take great caution before investing. My response was to that pro sentiment that Coinpurse expressed. Is Coinpurse a pro? I don't know, but Coinpurse is certainly concerned about them hence my curiosity and or opinions on the matter.

I'm just a hobbyist these days, I do spend all my free time doing this, hours a day, every day, a serious hobbyist (?) but I definitely knew that Bitwig had some bugs, (getting better) I knew it didn't have all the features Logic had, but otherwise it performed well enough on my system for my intended purpose and I accepted the trade off without expectations of a flawless working environment because it clearly wasn't in my trial. I did throw a couple hundred plus tracks at it and started editing them in every way I could think of and or would use in a session, if available, not worried about the outcome to purposely stress the software and gauge the limits. I learned a lot from doing that multiple times, and still thought and think it's worth it. I got what I paid for, and I try not complain about it though I've had and do have my wishful moments. (a better Sampler was a big one for me, but I didn't throw a fit about it, freak out or whatever, call Bitwig a toy, or flawed beyond usefulness on the forums, or what have you, as some have. I'm mixing people up mind you, not that i'm against it but if you can dish it, ect) Personally I didn't buy the future, I bought an existing product at the time. From my point of view, its just getting better, or to put it another way, becoming more than what I bought into. I didn't expect to like the Grid, I didn't want it particularly, but surprise, like it. It turns out it will be useful for me.

If this were my profession, I would have to consider not what I want to work in, but what I need to get the work done. Maybe that's Bitwig, maybe it's not. It depends on the application. The demo, the users, the forum, support, youtube, the documentation, ect, there are many avenues for me to figure that out before I invest further time and money.

On a related note, and I don't know if this is the same for anyone else, the few pros I that I've known, in my limited experience, typically used older (but very good) gear and or older versions of established software, Pro tools, Logic, or Cubase. (at times more than one of these) They just didn't have the time to take risks, but these guys were tracking, producing, and or mixing bands and singers/ect full time in a business. If it's not broken, ect. Upgrading and or investing in new tools was a big deal. That was a while ago though, and of course may not apply to other professionals.

[The Jack]

A wish for the authors of Bitwig.
Please add a way to purchase a license: rent-to-own in 24 monthly.

[antic604]

I don't do this very often, but I kinda struggle with editing audio.

First of all, the fact that we need to switch between "modes" to do basic stuff is weird and unnecessary. Second, most handles for taking action (fades, onsets, stretch markers) are pretty small and you need to be very precise for them to appear (this is also an issue for editing MIDI, really). Inability to simply stretch a sample (or MIDI clip for that matter) straight from sequencer is a significant bummer. Lastly, there really should be a setting for density of auto-detected onsets and audio quantisation to grid.

[jonljacobi]

I agree with the too small deal and too much precision deal. Over-engineered. Why are there giant menus and tiny markers?

Also, having to click and drag to create a stretch marker and one to each side is finicky beyond belief and tends to actually move the marker when you do it. It's just about the most difficult stretching of all the major DAWs. And why two separate modes for transients and stretching? This has actually been one of my most long-standing complaints.