Pre-purchase newbie question: Version 2 vs 3 MIDI export of capo position?

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Really enjoying getting to know the Ample sounds demo instruments.

I'm working on learning MIDI export today and came across a puzzler. When I export from the V3 Martin, changes in capo setting are reflected in the exported drag/drop MIDI export into Ableton Live (export is set to keyswitch). When I drag/drop from the V2 Gibson, capo position does not change the clip that's exported.

Am I overlooking a setting? Or is there a keyswitch way to change capo setting in V2 instruments? I love the riffs in the electric guitars, but they're all V2 instruments. So one idea was to export the riffs from a V3 instrument but that didn't work so I'm assuming capo changes are different between the two versions.
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Argh. This is all wrong, isn't it. I was spoofing myself by changing capo in the instrument before I played the exported riffs back. But I'll bet automating the capo positions in the DAW will work. Sorry about the dumb question. Back with another reply when I confirm my automation theory.
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I've made a little video of what is happening. It definitely seems like a difference in the way that the Capo-automation is handled in version 2 versus version 3. I don't like to put "questions" videos up on Youtube for all the world to see, so I've pushed a little 15 mb .mp4 video file up to my server (note the same domain is in my signature - I vouch for the file and the link).

https://haven2.com/video/RifferCapoAutomation.mp4

You have to open that link in a new tab (right-click, select "open in new tab"), otherwise you'll only get the audio. At least, that's what I had to do.

The interesting thing is that Ver 2 Capo-automation values are on a scale from 1 to 12 while the Capo-automation in Ver 3 is scaled from 0 to 1. Which I learned by watching the video. But what's really interesting is how Ver 2 works fine, but Ver 3 seems to be weirdly overriding the automation. You'll see what I mean in the video.

Any ideas about how to overcome this?
Last edited by oconnorstp on Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:52 am, edited 3 times in total.
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I've edited this post because my happy workaround doesn't really work in real life situations -- only in very narrow circumstances. I moved the "wrong stuff" down to the bottom. Another video to follow.

The "overwriting" problem persists between Live's Session View (where I was working, in the video) and Arrangement View (the timeline or piano-roll view). In Session view, I was manipulating automation within the clip, in Arrangement view I was manipulating automation at the track level - but the problem is there in both cases.

Completely wrong stuff -- later proven not to be true.
Here's more interesting stuff. I tried changing from the AU to the VST of the V3 Martin plugin. The *scaling* in the VST 3 plugin is 1-12, just like the V3 Gibson one. That's good news. But the weird "overwriting" behavior persists in the VST version. It *is* possible to work around this with the VSTs by splitting the riffs up into separate clips and not trying to change the capo-setting within the clip. But it sure would be handy to bring back the Ver 2 behavior so that chord progressions could be built in one clip.
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I decided to do a complete walk through of loading the plugins and demonstrating the puzzler. Here's another private video, again don't really want this all over the world just want to ask you Smart People. As with the last one, try "open in a new tab" to get the video. When I just click this link I only hear the audio portion of the video

https://www.haven2.com/video/CapoSequel.mp4

I reinstalled the Martin plugin and can confirm that this is not the VST3 plugin, just the regular one. But the same thing happens with the AU, so I don't think it's plugin-format related. Live version 10.0.6.
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Up here in da Northland we say "uffdah!" when we realize that we're in deeper trouble than we thought.

Turns out that same behavior I demonstrated in the last video happens with ALL automation. Steps to replicate:

- restart computer
- launch Ableton Live (v 10.0.6) on a Mac (High Sierra/10.13.6)
- load an instance of AGM
- switch to Arrangement view
- move any control (to "catch" automation)
- draw in an automation curve that ranges between extreme values (very low - very high)

After drawing in a few points in the automation lane, the "Re-Enable Automation" button will toggle, the newly-drawn automation turns gray and the automation is disabled.

I didn't really care a lot about the Capo parameter. But I use automation a lot and it worries me that automation doesn't work at all in Live with Version III instruments. Works fine with Version II instruments.

Has anybody else run into this? I've searched the forum a few times and haven't come up with a hit yet, so please do point me at a duplicate thread if there is one.
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Dang. Ran out of daylight -- the demo expired. I've found a few useful things to research, but can't test them. I'll post these ideas here and then open a support ticket.

Live is definitely fussy about the way it processes automation. Here's a thread where some developers were wrestling with this in their product.

https://forum.juce.com/t/audioprocessor ... t-au/24057

And here's a very promising thread over at Cycling74 (the Max and Max 4 Live folks). They have a link to a little M4L device that I was going to try this morning. I read the code in this little device to see what it's doing. It sits on the track and just constantly strobes the re_enable_automation_enabled property. Kindof brute-force, but seems like a plausible work-around to me.

https://cycling74.com/forums/re-enable- ... -randomly/

Unlike the developers in these two threads, the developers at Ample Sound are in a wonderful position. The automation code in their V2 plugins works! :-) So comparing that code between the two versions should reveal what is causing the trouble and may lead to a simple fix.
About our habitat restoration project - www.PrairieHaven.com
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