Kirk Hunter Diamond Symphony Orchestra Support

[Dewdman42]

Ok, so CC11 was redundantly linked to CC7. Was it linked only to CC7 or was it linked to other parameters at the same time?

If its only redundantly linked to CC7, then I don't see any problem, other then you desired for it to be linked to something else. So what did you link CC11 to instead of or in addition to CC7?

What does Kirks modvol feature do...what is CC1 linked to when in that mode where mod wheel is used for volume?

[nousndthem]

Ok, so CC11 was redundantly linked to CC7. Was it linked only to CC7 or was it linked to other parameters at the same time?

If its only redundantly linked to CC7, then I don't see any problem, other then you desired for it to be linked to something else. So what did you link CC11 to instead of or in addition to CC7?

What does Kirks modvol feature do...what is CC1 linked to when in that mode where mod wheel is used for volume?

You clearly don't understand using CC11 as expression ****inside of**** CC07.
I've explained it quite a few times and it's not getting through to you.
Sorry to say I think this is a waste of time for me.

Reread my posts and maybe you'll understand what I'm saying but I'm not going to attempt to explain it again.

[Dewdman42]

Yes I agree, I'm having a hard time understanding you. CC11 is seperate from CC07, as far as it working inside the other one I have no idea what you're talking about. But seriously I am genuinely interesting in trying to understand this. I have actually read your posts several times and don't get it. I'm trying to ask you very simple one question at a time questions in order to get it.

[nousndthem]

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How I use them.
(CC01)
Quick pass playing the part sometimes riding mod wheel (CC01) to get a general performance.
Lets call that the performers dynamic control.

(CC11)
My Keyboard controller has CC11 assigned to a fader.
After the tracks are cut I might hear ... "oh ... that cello is too loud for about 12 bars but it slowly gets right in place at bar 14.
I arm the track to record and use the CC11 fader, writing expression to the cello track to put them were they need to be.
So, lets call that the Conductors dynamic control. I shook my CC11 stick at the Cellos and they learned what to do for that section where they were too loud.

(CC07)
Final midi mix before audio mix. I'll use CC07 to level out the parts even more.
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[Dewdman42]

so if I understand you correctly, you're wanting, and have setup CC11 so that the full range of 0-127 of CC11 functions within whatever the current CC07 range is. In other words, if CC07 is set to 127, then CC11 is exactly the same as using CC07. But if CC07 were set to say 64, then the CC11 range becomes half as sensitive... But otherwise...they are both pointing to the same thing...the AMP parameter. Or does the AMP parameter in the Kontakt programming effect the sound differently then CC07 does?

[Dewdman42]

And next question... what does CC01 do then when using the TVEC modvol option? Isn't that doing already what you reprogrammed CC11 to do?

[nousndthem]

And next question... what does CC01 do then when using the TVEC modvol option? Isn't that doing already what you reprogrammed CC11 to do?

Re read my last post.

[Dewdman42]

that doesn't answer my question. From all you have written I can only interpret that you want three CC's all controlling the AMP control.

[nousndthem]

Yes, but if velocity crossfade is also available I'll use that on cc01 combined with a slight volume boost. If not, then just the volume boost.

[Dewdman42]

Ah k. So you're interpretation of TVEC right now is that CC01 is doing the crossfading stuff... and then Kirk just made CC11 and CC07 do the same thing, but by linking CC11 to Amp instead of CC07 you feel you are getting two CC's that effect the volume in a non-tonal way, just one more sensitive then the other, or something like that?

[nousndthem]

This was covered in much more detail a few pages back.

[Dewdman42]

So this is correct then?

Ah k. So you're interpretation of TVEC right now is that CC01 is doing the crossfading stuff... and then Kirk just made CC11 and CC07 do the same thing, but by linking CC11 to Amp instead of CC07 you feel you are getting two CC's that effect the volume in a non-tonal way, just one more sensitive then the other, or something like that?

All the detail is what threw me off I'm afraid...

In any case, if that is all you were meaning to do, get two different volume pots happening, one more sensitive then the other...then I get it...its not really something I would actually need.

For me I'd rather use mod wheel to do the fine tuning of "dynamic expression" in order to get tonal change that are intended by crossfading, presuming TVEC even does that. If TVEC only bumps the amp up and down once the initial sound has started playing...then its all kind of a moot point for me anyway.

I usually leave CC07 cranked to full always. For me, overall volume level mixing happens in the audio domain during mixing. But I can see how if someone wanted to create a midi only performance, then CC07 would be the place to do that overall level mixing.

So the fact that CC11 and CC07 are linked together in some way makes me think that I basically wouldn't want to use CC11 at all ever in the default TVEC...certainly not if its linked directly to CC07, so I get why you unlinked them at least, because you want CC11 to be used for expressive dynamics that say a real player would impart, while CC07 is what the mix engineer normally does.

But in my mind, doing the expressive dynamics with CC11(amp) is not much different then just doing it all with CC07..other then the separation of task between what the player does vs what the mix engineer does; which is definitely valid if you need the midi sequence to be mixed entirely in the midi domain, but not so much if you're going to record the tracks to audio optimally and then mix them in the audio domain after.

Either way if they are both basically just volume pots...then I view neither one to be appropriate for programming in dynamic expressiveness per what the player would impart in orch parts because really that should happen in such a way as to access different tonal programming, for example, what allegedly happens with the mod wheel.

Seems like maybe I'd rather have CC11 linked to what the mod wheel is doing now..which hopefully is something more then merely adjusting the AMP parameter. And that would be redundant, no purpose for me at all unless there is some aspect of dynamics that are not being handled by the modvol option in TVEC.

[nousndthem]

So this is correct then?

For me I'd rather use mod wheel to do the fine tuning of "dynamic expression"

I use CC01 with the wheel for dynamic expression all the time.
That as the whole point in detailing the changes I made to instruments, over the past year or more, a few pages back in this thread.

Edit: (on 12.25.18)
However, CC01 is not enough for me. It'll be the first "rough' one I use when playing in an instruments performance.
Then I'll always use CC11 to manage long term dynamics or the volume difference between one phrase and an other.
Then sometimes CC07 during the mixing process.

All 3 have become essential for me, and work together.

SO, the edit above is in response to your post below that says "and now you have it"
because it implies that you might think that I only use CC01, which would be incorrect.
All 3 have become essential for me, and work together.

[Dewdman42]

and now you have it!

[danatkorg]

Yes I agree, I'm having a hard time understanding you. CC11 is seperate from CC07, as far as it working inside the other one I have no idea what you're talking about. But seriously I am genuinely interesting in trying to understand this. I have actually read your posts several times and don't get it. I'm trying to ask you very simple one question at a time questions in order to get it.

This may help, from:
http://www.gweep.net/~prefect/eng/refer ... c.html#Exp

Expression
Number: 11 (coarse) 43 (fine)

"This is a percentage of Volume (ie, as set by Volume Controller). In other words, Expression divides the current volume into 16,384 steps (or 128 if 8-bit instead of 14-bit resolution is used). Volume Controller is used to set the overall volume of the entire musical part, whereas Expression is used for doing crescendos and decrescendos. By having both a master Volume and sub-Volume (ie, Expression), it makes possible adjusting the overall volume of a part without having to adjust every single MIDI message comprising a crescendo or decrescendo. When Expression is at 100% (ie, maximum or 0x3FFF), then the volume represents the true setting of Volume Controller. Lower values of Expression begin to subtract from the volume. When Expression is 0% (ie, 0x0000), then volume is off. When Expression is 50% (ie, 0x1FFF), then the volume is cut in half."