TX16Wx 3.0.16g released

Official support for: tx16wx.com
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Small fixes for the new year. Happy sampling everyone.

TX16Wx 3.0.16
  • Regions can now be moved using arrow keys
  • Sustenuto and dampener now also work on mono mode voices
  • Fixed keyboard input issue on OSX
  • Fixed OSX modal dialog issue
  • Fixed group switcher enabled state not persisted/read correctly
TX16Wx 3.0.16a
  • Fixed group switcher undo/modified management
  • Fixed group switcher source not persisted
  • Fixed block size/sample rate reset behaviour affecting pro tools sessions
  • Fixed escape key handling in text fields
  • Program bounds now filter incoming MIDI keys
TX16Wx 3.0.16b
  • Fixed Audio Unit mono bus mode management
  • Fixed OSX composite character text input
TX16Wx 3.0.16c
  • Fixed VST2 bus management compatibility issue in Cakewalk
  • Fixed VST3 bus management compatibility issue in Cakewalk
TX16Wx 3.0.16d
  • Fixed loop cross fade attribute not persisted correctly
TX16Wx 3.0.16e
  • Fixed group round robin counter not incremented properly with overlapping regions or group mute
  • Fixed modulation of AEG attack/time and ENV time
  • Fixed wave position drawing for reverse/bidirectional loops in DFD mode
TX16Wx 3.0.16f
  • Fixed VST 2&3 keyboard input broken (again)
TX16Wx 3.0.16g
  • Fixed matrix shift/tune not saved
  • Fixed dialog modality
  • Fixed window reordering in cubase
TX16Wx Software Sampler:
http://www.tx16wx.com/

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Nice to see that sustain pedal now works in mono mode. But there could be one improvement - it should work properly with key-up retrigger.

Here's a test: in mono or legato mode, hold middle C. Now while holding that key, tap on the surrounding keys (staccato) - after those keys are released, we have that middle C sounding again, which is great. This is without sustain pedal. Now do the same thing with sustain pedal. It should behave exactly the same, but as it is right now in TX16Wx, it doesn't ever return back to the middle C that is held down.

This is standard behavior in pretty much any sample-based device (or rompler) I've ever played (like, all Korgs, Kurzweils, Rolands too IIRC).



It would also be nice to have some more arrow-key modifiers, not just for moving zones, but also resizing them. Ctrl+left/right would move the High Key left/right. Alt+left/right would move the Low Key left/right. Same combinations but with up/down would just move the High Vel or Low Vel respectively. Holding Shift and using arrows would select the nearby zones, perhaps?



When dropping the samples onto the mapping area, C octave markings that are above the root key just vanish from the view, which is kinda not nice? :)

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EvilDragon wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:48 pm Nice to see that sustain pedal now works in mono mode. But there could be one improvement - it should work properly with key-up retrigger.

Here's a test: in mono or legato mode, hold middle C. Now while holding that key, tap on the surrounding keys (staccato) - after those keys are released, we have that middle C sounding again, which is great. This is without sustain pedal. Now do the same thing with sustain pedal. It should behave exactly the same, but as it is right now in TX16Wx, it doesn't ever return back to the middle C that is held down.
I don't get what you mean here. The change in 3.0.16 is that mono mode now respects sustain/dampener pedal, i.e. if you trigger a new key in mono, the playing voice will move there, but releasing said key if either you enabled sustain for said voice or hold the dampener will not release the voice, since the note-off is delayed. Once you release the dampener/sustain, the note-off will trigger and the voice will move to whatever is held (based on the prio setting).

Prior to 3.0.16, mono release would always first look for a held note before considering sustain/dampener. Don't tell me this is the desired behaviour, and you encouraged it in the first place?
EvilDragon wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:48 pm This is standard behavior in pretty much any sample-based device (or rompler) I've ever played (like, all Korgs, Kurzweils, Rolands too IIRC).



It would also be nice to have some more arrow-key modifiers, not just for moving zones, but also resizing them. Ctrl+left/right would move the High Key left/right. Alt+left/right would move the Low Key left/right. Same combinations but with up/down would just move the High Vel or Low Vel respectively. Holding Shift and using arrows would select the nearby zones, perhaps?
Ctrl-arrow moves octave/10 vel. Maybe alt for right and ctrl-alt for left.
EvilDragon wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:48 pm
When dropping the samples onto the mapping area, C octave markings that are above the root key just vanish from the view, which is kinda not nice? :)
Right, root key is painted after note names. Should maybe change.
TX16Wx Software Sampler:
http://www.tx16wx.com/

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elcallio wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:30 amI don't get what you mean here. The change in 3.0.16 is that mono mode now respects sustain/dampener pedal, i.e. if you trigger a new key in mono, the playing voice will move there, but releasing said key if either you enabled sustain for said voice or hold the dampener will not release the voice, since the note-off is delayed. Once you release the dampener/sustain, the note-off will trigger and the voice will move to whatever is held (based on the prio setting).

Prior to 3.0.16, mono release would always first look for a held note before considering sustain/dampener. Don't tell me this is the desired behaviour, and you encouraged it in the first place?
Yes, held notes should be looked for first in monophonic mode. This is how it works on my Kurzweil, and a bunch of Korgs I've played throughout my life (granted I haven't had an awful lot of experience with Yamaha's samplers/romplers). There should be no difference in sound with sustain pedal pressed or not pressed if you hold one key down all the time and then just staccato around it to get fast legato trills or whatever.

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I'm having major issues with 3.0.15 when inserting dverb and reverb fx1 and fx2.
Pro Tools Ultimate 2018.12 crashes and shutdown just after I try to open any session when I have one or more instances of TX16w with the above mentioned effects.

It seems to open fine again if I remove the TX16w built inn effects.

However when this happens it's impossible to open the PT session so I have to create a new session and import all tracks except the ones with TX16w with the effects on.

I'm running Windows 10 Home.
Chris

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EvilDragon wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:41 am
elcallio wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:30 amI don't get what you mean here. The change in 3.0.16 is that mono mode now respects sustain/dampener pedal, i.e. if you trigger a new key in mono, the playing voice will move there, but releasing said key if either you enabled sustain for said voice or hold the dampener will not release the voice, since the note-off is delayed. Once you release the dampener/sustain, the note-off will trigger and the voice will move to whatever is held (based on the prio setting).

Prior to 3.0.16, mono release would always first look for a held note before considering sustain/dampener. Don't tell me this is the desired behaviour, and you encouraged it in the first place?
Yes, held notes should be looked for first in monophonic mode. This is how it works on my Kurzweil, and a bunch of Korgs I've played throughout my life (granted I haven't had an awful lot of experience with Yamaha's samplers/romplers). There should be no difference in sound with sustain pedal pressed or not pressed if you hold one key down all the time and then just staccato around it to get fast legato trills or whatever.
Ok, that would be a good explanation why the old behaviour was like it was, but it that not slightly unintuitive, since it means that MIDI notes behave different depending on mono/poly mode? It also means you cannot use the pedal to hold and release for example a high note (released key) and return to a held lower. Not being exactly a pedal jockey myself I'm not sure which is more useful.

Anyway, since there seems to have been a reason for the old difference, this is probably to be seen as a regression, and should be reverted.

Seems anyway like it is time to introduce beta builds for these kind of behaviour things.
TX16Wx Software Sampler:
http://www.tx16wx.com/

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chrisdee wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:52 am I'm having major issues with 3.0.15 when inserting dverb and reverb fx1 and fx2.
Pro Tools Ultimate 2018.12 crashes and shutdown just after I try to open any session when I have one or more instances of TX16w with the above mentioned effects.

It seems to open fine again if I remove the TX16w built inn effects.

However when this happens it's impossible to open the PT session so I have to create a new session and import all tracks except the ones with TX16w with the effects on.

I'm running Windows 10 Home.
Did you get a crash dump?
TX16Wx Software Sampler:
http://www.tx16wx.com/

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elcallio wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:01 amOk, that would be a good explanation why the old behaviour was like it was, but it that not slightly unintuitive, since it means that MIDI notes behave different depending on mono/poly mode? It also means you cannot use the pedal to hold and release for example a high note (released key) and return to a held lower. Not being exactly a pedal jockey myself I'm not sure which is more useful.
Hmmmm. Wait. You CAN do that (testing on my Kurzweil and Korgs). So you play a high note, press sustain pedal, release that high note - it keeps playing because of sustain pedal. Then while pedal is still pressed, play a lower note. It WILL play, the old one won't (because mono mode).

It's just when you have OTHER held keys while sustain pedal is held down as well, and you release the currently sounding key, it will retrigger (or legato to, depending on mono mode) to the previously pressed key that is still held down FIRST. It seems like there's a LIFO buffer for held notes that is used here.


Want me to record a video with several use cases? Or would a MIDI file + audio of the synth which works in intended way be enough? Just to make this as clear cut as possible.

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So, first off, we need to keep track off sustenato vs. dampener. Sustenato only affects note active when you press/trigger the pedal, whereas dampener when enabled simply delays any note-off until released.

Currently, in mono mode,
* if you play C, hit sustenato, hold C and press D, then release D, sound will be C-D-C. Release C and C keeps playing. Release sustenato and playing stops.
* if you play C, hit dampener, hold C and press D, then release D, sound will be C-D, and when you release the dampener you get C again. (Same if dampener is pressed right before releasing D).
* if you play C, hold C and press D, hit sustenato, then release D, sound is C-D. On sustenato release C again.

Previously in mono mode, all keys except last held would be released in favour of explicitly held remaining key on note-off. Now it treats everything as just MIDI note-on/off delays regardless.

MIDI + audio, or simple key + voice diagram like above is preferable.
TX16Wx Software Sampler:
http://www.tx16wx.com/

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elcallio wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:02 am Did you get a crash dump?
Where would I find that?
Chris

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elcallio wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:33 pm So, first off, we need to keep track off sustenato vs. dampener. Sustenato only affects note active when you press/trigger the pedal, whereas dampener when enabled simply delays any note-off until released.

Currently, in mono mode,
1* if you play C, hit sustenato, hold C and press D, then release D, sound will be C-D-C. Release C and C keeps playing. Release sustenato and playing stops.
2* if you play C, hit dampener, hold C and press D, then release D, sound will be C-D, and when you release the dampener you get C again. (Same if dampener is pressed right before releasing D).
3* if you play C, hold C and press D, hit sustenato, then release D, sound is C-D. On sustenato release C again.

Previously in mono mode, all keys except last held would be released in favour of explicitly held remaining key on note-off. Now it treats everything as just MIDI note-on/off delays regardless.

MIDI + audio, or simple key + voice diagram like above is preferable.
BTW it's sostenuto ;)

I am not at all concerned about sostenuto here, just regular sustain pedal (that's what's going to be used by 99% of people who use these pedals, I'd reckon, and possibly 100% of people who'd want to use it in mono mode - sostenuto is just not used in mono mode, at least I've never seen it getting any use, anywhere by anywho). Sostenuto behaves as you said, just like sustain pedal but it only works on keys that are being held down at the moment you press the sostenuto pedal.

I have added numbers before asterisks in your post, hope you don't mind. So this is the only thing that would need to change:

2* if you play C, hit dampener, hold C and press D, D will sound, then release D, sound will go back to C, and when you release the dampener you get C again. (Same if dampener is pressed right before releasing D).


Attached is MIDI + audio created with Korg's M1 plugin.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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So if I read you correctly, mono mode should ignore dampener (and probably sus. as well) unless it is the last note held being released?
That is the old behaviour, and while I don't have any strong feelings on it, I wonder what the rationale is? (Apart from "others do it"). Why is a note-off in mono not to be treated the same way as a poly one? Or is the rationale that since we are monophonic we give prio to actually held keys?
TX16Wx Software Sampler:
http://www.tx16wx.com/

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Yes, that's it - mono mode ignoring sustain pedal unless it's the last held key (or no keys held but sustain pedal still pressed). AFAICT the rationale is the latter thing you mention "since we are monophonic we give prio to held keys". OTOH it could very well be a design choice by a certain vendor. Then again, vendor can be inconsistent in applying this (like, Korg M1 and a bunch of their romplers do work this way, but some of the racked versions of their romplers, like for example N1R, don't - and this is a pain in the ass IMHO.)

Mind you, there are some other synths which don't work this way. But this is extremely, EXTREMELY annoying to me. Sucks the fun out of playing long, fast, super-legato lines that would be impossible to play otherwise.

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But why not just _not_ press the dampener while doing the legato rolls? I wonder if this should be switchable? Otoh, I still imagine dampener being much more commonly used for piano like instruments, so going back to the old behaviour is probably fine in either case.
TX16Wx Software Sampler:
http://www.tx16wx.com/

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Of course, that's what I do - hold sustain and then play whatever on the keyboard. But if it happens that I do a really fast trill while just holding one key and tapping another, and everything under sustain, the current behavior never returns back to the anchored key. So yeah, reverting will be welcome. I personally cannot see why this should be switchable between old and new behavior - not sounding a key that is still physically held, and under sustain pedal doesn't sound like a useful thing to me, in mono mode.

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