Just Upgraded to V3 Pro--some questions concerning melodic samples.

Official support for: tx16wx.com
lemerchand
KVRer
4 posts since 10 Feb, 2019

Post Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:02 am

Hi! I've been using TX16wx v2 for a couple years now for making custom percussion kits, and for this purpose it has worked exceptionally well. Recently I have a gig doing music for a indie video game and I figured I'd give a shot at doing some melodic sampling.

I took a loop of an expressive solo violin performance and sliced it up into pieces, made sure I had at least 2 instances of each note for round-robin, and set out to work. V2 was giving me lots of saving-error grief so I went to see if there was an update, and there was! I'm still getting use to the GUI, but even more to doing melodic samples. I'm finding myself fiddling with no luck with several things instead of working on the project :/

One issue I seem to be having is that when I try to set up round-robin from the groups menu I set Seq/r to 1:2 for my first set of samples, and 2:2 to my second. This works for about 2-5 minutes and then suddenly only the first set will play. The only thing that seems to remedy this is to change the seq/r to 1:2 and 1:2. Then it works for about 2-5 minutes and then I have to set it back to 1:2 and 2:2. I'm assuming there is user error somewhere, but I'm not certain where.

Secondly, I can seem to get most modulation destinations to work but I've been trying to adjust attack time with my mod-wheel and it doesn't seem to respond. I've tried going all the way down to -8 as well as all the way up to 8 and it seems to not have any effect whatsoever. I know the sampler responds to the modwheel because it works when I set it to other destinations (eg., pitch).

Thirdly, I upgraded to Pro because I was under the impression that cross-fading by key meant blending of one sample into another (that is, I was hoping for a smooth transition from, say, one violin note to another). This doesn't seem to be the case, so I was wondering if anyone knew of another way I could do this. So far I have just been modulating release time so that I can leave the tail of one note as I go into another. This is better than nothing, but I think there must be a better way.

Fourthly, and this is more of a question: in version 2 when I was looking for quality loop points I was able to hear how my adjustments effected it in real-time. It seems in version 3 that I have to stop playing a note before I can hear the new loop position. Also the playback line only moves forward in bidirectional mode (it went both ways in 2). Is there anyway to go back to that?

Fifthly, I really like the tooltips, but there are times where they stop appearing and it seems the only way to get them to work again is close out my Reaper project, and reopen it.

Thanks for reading this gigantic wall of text! I hope everyone is doing well.

elcallio
KVRAF
1628 posts since 27 May, 2005 from Stockholm

Re: Just Upgraded to V3 Pro--some questions concerning melodic samples.

Post Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:01 pm

lemerchand wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:02 am
Hi! I've been using TX16wx v2 for a couple years now for making custom percussion kits, and for this purpose it has worked exceptionally well. Recently I have a gig doing music for a indie video game and I figured I'd give a shot at doing some melodic sampling.

I took a loop of an expressive solo violin performance and sliced it up into pieces, made sure I had at least 2 instances of each note for round-robin, and set out to work. V2 was giving me lots of saving-error grief so I went to see if there was an update, and there was! I'm still getting use to the GUI, but even more to doing melodic samples. I'm finding myself fiddling with no luck with several things instead of working on the project :/

One issue I seem to be having is that when I try to set up round-robin from the groups menu I set Seq/r to 1:2 for my first set of samples, and 2:2 to my second. This works for about 2-5 minutes and then suddenly only the first set will play. The only thing that seems to remedy this is to change the seq/r to 1:2 and 1:2. Then it works for about 2-5 minutes and then I have to set it back to 1:2 and 2:2. I'm assuming there is user error somewhere, but I'm not certain where.
Please send the program (with samples) that misbehaves. What you describe should work, but there might be some subtle bug.

One note though: For group switch round-robin, you can try setting the round-robin source to "program". This will ensure the two groups share the same counter. However, if you have more than one round-robin set, be aware that the counter will increment for each note-on.

When using "default" (i.e. group), each individual groups round-robin counter is used. This is normally ok, but if for example the mapped key/vel ranges differ, one group might not trigger, and you would get a mismatched rr-count.

I did notice that muting groups for example can lead to mismatches. Will be fixed in next build.
lemerchand wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:02 am
Secondly, I can seem to get most modulation destinations to work but I've been trying to adjust attack time with my mod-wheel and it doesn't seem to respond. I've tried going all the way down to -8 as well as all the way up to 8 and it seems to not have any effect whatsoever. I know the sampler responds to the modwheel because it works when I set it to other destinations (eg., pitch).
You found a bug. I've verified and fixed it. Will be in next build.
lemerchand wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:02 am
Thirdly, I upgraded to Pro because I was under the impression that cross-fading by key meant blending of one sample into another (that is, I was hoping for a smooth transition from, say, one violin note to another). This doesn't seem to be the case, so I was wondering if anyone knew of another way I could do this. So far I have just been modulating release time so that I can leave the tail of one note as I go into another. This is better than nothing, but I think there must be a better way.
cross-fade by key/vel is for crossfading layers/regions. What you are looking for (if I read correctly) is the ability to cross-fade between two samples based on some modulation. What you want to do is create (simplest version) two groups with the cross-fade samples placed in each (can be multi-sample sets or whatever), and two sound parameter blocks, one for each. In each sound block modulation settings, create a mapping from, say mod wheel (for this example) to volume. Now, using mapping curves, you can draw it so that for layer 1, mod wheel at zero adds zero to volume, and mod wheel at 1 adds -1 to volume (i.e. a curve from 0:0 -> 1:-1). Then in layer two do similarly, but make the curve go 0:-1 -> 1:0. You can now play the two layers together and use the mod wheel to crossfade between them.

You can of course use any midi cc, automation etc, and the example can be extended to more than two layers by dividing the controller range into three, four etc ranges, and make the curves accordingly.
lemerchand wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:02 am
Fourthly, and this is more of a question: in version 2 when I was looking for quality loop points I was able to hear how my adjustments effected it in real-time. It seems in version 3 that I have to stop playing a note before I can hear the new loop position. Also the playback line only moves forward in bidirectional mode (it went both ways in 2). Is there anyway to go back to that?
In DFD mode the loop will not update until next note. In RAM mode it will update immediately.
The draw issue is a bit of a bug. Will also be addressed in next build.
lemerchand wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:02 am
Fifthly, I really like the tooltips, but there are times where they stop appearing and it seems the only way to get them to work again is close out my Reaper project, and reopen it.
I have not seen or reproed this. Will have to investigate further. Can you provide system details?
lemerchand wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:02 am
Thanks for reading this gigantic wall of text! I hope everyone is doing well.
TX16Wx Software Sampler:
http://www.tx16wx.com/

lemerchand
KVRer
4 posts since 10 Feb, 2019

Re: Just Upgraded to V3 Pro--some questions concerning melodic samples.

Post Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:01 am

First, I would like to say thank you for the fast response time and the great support. :)
Please send the program (with samples) that misbehaves. What you describe should work, but there might be some subtle bug.

One note though: For group switch round-robin, you can try setting the round-robin source to "program". This will ensure the two groups share the same counter. However, if you have more than one round-robin set, be aware that the counter will increment for each note-on.

I did notice that muting groups for example can lead to mismatches. Will be fixed in next build.
Okay, so I set the groups to "Program," and that seems to have fixed it. I DID use muting when I originally set these up to test whether the round robin was working, so maybe that's why I was getting the issue. If you still want me to send the program and samples over I can, but if you think that was the issue then cool, thanks!
You found a bug. I've verified and fixed it. Will be in next build.
Cool, looking forward to that, and glad to have helped.
In DFD mode the loop will not update until next note. In RAM mode it will update immediately.
The draw issue is a bit of a bug. Will also be addressed in next build.
I hadn't realized I was in DFD mode, I set it to RAM and I see that you were right, thanks for the heads up.
I have not seen or reproed this. Will have to investigate further. Can you provide system details?
I'm on a Core i7 (I don't remember which gen--it was a gift from a friend) that runs around 3ghrz. 16gb of ram, on Windows 10 64-bit. The TX16WX log looks clean--just info on loading samples. I use Reaper as my DAW. Any other details you wanted?
What you are looking for (if I read correctly) is the ability to cross-fade between two samples based on some modulation.
So I'm not 100% certain we are on the same page, but we are def in the same chapter. Let me just see if I can explain it more clearly than I did the first time; In this example I am slicing up, mapping, and playing violin samples. Now I realize I cannot ever get it perfect, but I'm trying to smooth the transition out between notes.

So for example, if a real player goes from A5 to D5 there isn't an instantaneous stopping of the A and immediate playing of the D. Again, I realize the nuances of the realistic transition are not re-creatable, but I am under the impression that algorithms in things like East West just cross-fade from one sample to another to give the illusion of a smooth transition. Glide is not quite what I am looking for. One way I have tried to do it is by setting the group I'm playing as polyphonic and giving a base release of ~500ms for when I am quickly playing through notes. I also set ATK and REL to the modwheel--this way I can control how long the tail of a note is as I begin to play the next one. For example if i am playing slowly a long release tail helps me go to the next note. If I am playing fast I can dial back. This is better than nothing, but I still think it would be better handled by automation rather than my hand on the mod-wheel.

I did try your suggestion, but the issue is that as I am transitioning from one end of the modwheel to the other its just switching to the next sample which was already playing (just at a lower volume) so that release tail is still there. If I am mistaken in what you suggested (which is very possible on my part!) then I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

Either way, thanks again!

elcallio
KVRAF
1628 posts since 27 May, 2005 from Stockholm

Re: Just Upgraded to V3 Pro--some questions concerning melodic samples.

Post Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:19 am

Builds are updated.
lemerchand wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:01 am

I'm on a Core i7 (I don't remember which gen--it was a gift from a friend) that runs around 3ghrz. 16gb of ram, on Windows 10 64-bit. The TX16WX log looks clean--just info on loading samples. I use Reaper as my DAW. Any other details you wanted?
Sort of. reaper version should not matter at all.
lemerchand wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:01 am
What you are looking for (if I read correctly) is the ability to cross-fade between two samples based on some modulation.
So I'm not 100% certain we are on the same page, but we are def in the same chapter. Let me just see if I can explain it more clearly than I did the first time; In this example I am slicing up, mapping, and playing violin samples. Now I realize I cannot ever get it perfect, but I'm trying to smooth the transition out between notes.

So for example, if a real player goes from A5 to D5 there isn't an instantaneous stopping of the A and immediate playing of the D. Again, I realize the nuances of the realistic transition are not re-creatable, but I am under the impression that algorithms in things like East West just cross-fade from one sample to another to give the illusion of a smooth transition. Glide is not quite what I am looking for. One way I have tried to do it is by setting the group I'm playing as polyphonic and giving a base release of ~500ms for when I am quickly playing through notes. I also set ATK and REL to the modwheel--this way I can control how long the tail of a note is as I begin to play the next one. For example if i am playing slowly a long release tail helps me go to the next note. If I am playing fast I can dial back. This is better than nothing, but I still think it would be better handled by automation rather than my hand on the mod-wheel.

I did try your suggestion, but the issue is that as I am transitioning from one end of the modwheel to the other its just switching to the next sample which was already playing (just at a lower volume) so that release tail is still there. If I am mistaken in what you suggested (which is very possible on my part!) then I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

Either way, thanks again!
If you just want to smoothly transition between samples on different keys in a legato mode, just set the playback mode to either mono or legato (you might also want to run in RAM mode for the instrument). Now triggering a new key when holding the old will replace the playing sample with the new one and crossfade (very quickly) between them. This is emulation of monophonic instruments.
TX16Wx Software Sampler:
http://www.tx16wx.com/

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