KVR Audio

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:50 pm

I kind of like the numerical ratings. They force the reviewer to commit to an opinion and are much easier to compare. What about having a N/A option for some of the categories if they're not appropriate? I hope you'll at least keep a numerical overall rating for each review.

Right now there's more incentive to post reviews to the instruments forum because there's a lot more discussion there and it's more likely that people will actually read the review. What about a new "reviews" forum that automatically links in each new review as a new topic? That way the review gets archived in a standard way but there's still some room for dialog and conversation?

WhiteNoise · Post by **WhiteNoise** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:31 am

shamann wrote:
WhiteNoise wrote:Number ratings always will be purely subjective.. so are written reviews for that matter. That's doesn't mean they aren't helpful.
Agreed, but it's not so much subjectivity as arbitrariness that's the problem. I'd be all for it if reviewers had the critical faculties to actually have a reason for giving stars. Many it seems just pick numbers out of their hats.

What's wrong with saying "Rate this synth 1-10, with 1 being unusable, 5 being average, and 10 being the absolute best sounding synth you have ever heard"? The numbers are arbitrary when compared with other synths but it's a rating based on THAT person's perception of THAT synth.. Of course if you compare them to other synths then it doesn't necessarily mean anything. What I want to be able to do is look at a review page and get a general idea what everyone thought of it. If something gets all 10's, I know everyone liked it. If it gets low marks I know people hate it for some reason. I don't need to know which synth scored the best, since it's not that kind of ranking.

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:39 am

WhiteNoise wrote:What I want to be able to do is look at a review page and get a general idea what everyone thought of it. If something gets all 10's, I know everyone liked it. If it gets low marks I know people hate it for some reason. I don't need to know which synth scored the best, since it's not that kind of ranking.

Being a reviewer, what I don't like is the 'snapshot in time' bit of giving a rating. Next month, something else might blow my socks off instead. Then when I rate it an 8 like I rated product "x" the month before, am I really saying the new product isn't as good at the last one, or that my perceptions have changed, or.... The longer I personally can stay away from ratings, the better. I'd rather concetrate on giving the reader an objective look at a product, showing its pros and cons based on my experience, which I think is better. I'd also rather MAKE you read what I have to say than have you skim off a score that you have no basis of what I'm rating it on.

Devon

SecondSkin · Post by **SecondSkin** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:42 am

I like all the new ideas Ben, and it ain't often that I like all of anything.

WhiteNoise · Post by **WhiteNoise** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:43 am

The same can be said of the text reviews too.. The synths we jizzed over a couple years ago are kinda sucky in comparison to the new ones we have today. Besides, if someone wants a quick snapshot, what's wrong with that?

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:51 am

WhiteNoise wrote:The same can be said of the text reviews too.. The synths we jizzed over a couple years ago are kinda sucky in comparison to the new ones we have today. Besides, if someone wants a quick snapshot, what's wrong with that?

What if it was possible to go back and update or revise a review later? Maybe the revisions could be clearly distinguished from the first review? I used to write music reviews and I always wished I could write a quick first impression review and then a followup review later.

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:10 am

WhiteNoise wrote:The same can be said of the text reviews too.. The synths we jizzed over a couple years ago are kinda sucky in comparison to the new ones we have today. Besides, if someone wants a quick snapshot, what's wrong with that?

But who takes the 'date' it was written into consideration either? How much stuff you do remember that you thought was great at its time, but as you've grown, can't stand anymore? Honestly, words give more meaning for a product than a simple number, at least it does to me.

What would you rather have someone walk away with? "I gave Dopplemangler an 8." Or "The sound of this synth is powerful and deep. With its bottom end hitting like a brick wall, and its high end ripping the aural spectrum, this is one synth not to pass over."

The numbers in some cases seem almost petty.

The other question is Ok, it's an 8. Based on what? What do YOU consider to be a 10? What do you consider to be a 1? What is your background? Do you even like the same synths I like? Is this the first synth/commercial synth you've owned? Do you even understand all the features of the synth to give an educated opinion on it? Are you giving it a 5 because you think all of 'Maker ABC's' synths are crap? Does it crash your machine all the time, so you give it a bad review? Does it not crash anyone else's machine except yours, yet you give it a 3?

So what does that number have you walk away with? I think something much more detrimental than words if the score is low.

Devon

Post by **Ben [KVR]** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:59 am

To satisfy those that want some kind of ratings we could have one overall rating to go along with the review, although these WON'T be available in a "ratings list" like they are now.

Rather than a numerical rating of 1-5 or 1-10 how about a simple three stage general feeling (to go along with Pros and Cons boxout)

Something like:

ThumbsDown-Neutral-ThumbsUp
unHappy-Neutral-Happy
StayAway-TryFirst-GetNowWhatAreYouWaitingFor
Dislike-Like-Love
etc.

Kunliko,

Right now there's more incentive to post reviews to the instruments forum because there's a lot more discussion there and it's more likely that people will actually read the review. What about a new "reviews" forum that automatically links in each new review as a new topic? That way the review gets archived in a standard way but there's still some room for dialog and conversation?

The reviews section isn't supposed to be about discussion, it supposed to be a review of a product from one person's perspective. Of course you can discuss products in the forums but the reviews section fills a different role.

stefancrs · Post by **stefancrs** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:30 am

Ben wrote

Instead of ratings the reviewer must complete a Pros and Cons boxout, like in an SOS review, and the reviewer must list up to 5 (more/less?) short pros and cons for the product, which should essentially summarize their review.

I'd say three pro's/cons would be sufficient. One would probably be more selective about what a pro and a con for a product is then.

Apart from that; I adore these ideas and think they seem to be a lot better than the current system.

To keep things kvr:ish with the "overall rating", make it a three-step smiley-rating (unhappy, neutral, happy or whatever. hms.
like these?

Nothing _too_ exciting about those, which is good imo. If someone is all flames about a plug, it will tell in the actual text.

Kim Lajoie · Post by **Kim Lajoie** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:53 am

Great ideas. The only problem I can see is that removing the numeric scores will also remove the plugin rankings. The rankings are good for newcomers to the softmusic scene, and want to quickly sort the decent from the not-so-decent. Maybe.

Maybe the

ThumbsDown-Neutral-ThumbsUp
unHappy-Neutral-Happy
StayAway-TryFirst-GetNowWhatAreYouWaitingFor
Dislike-Like-Love

system would do it, but I think three levels of rating are not enough. I would prefer five, perhaps something like:

Not worth the download
Try it if you like crap
Worth a look
Check it out, funk soul brother!
I'd choose this over my children/spouse/teddy bear...

Forever,

Kim.

Post by **Ben [KVR]** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:55 am

They will be replaced with Monthly Rankings.

Jeez wrote:Great ideas. The only problem I can see is that removing the numeric scores will also remove the plugin rankings. The rankings are good for newcomers to the softmusic scene, and want to quickly sort the decent from the not-so-decent. Maybe.

Maybe the
ThumbsDown-Neutral-ThumbsUp
unHappy-Neutral-Happy
StayAway-TryFirst-GetNowWhatAreYouWaitingFor
Dislike-Like-Love
system would do it, but I think three levels of rating are not enough. I would prefer five, perhaps something like:

Not worth the download
Try it if you like crap
Worth a look
Check it out, funk soul brother!
I'd choose this over my children/spouse/teddy bear...

Forever,

Kim.

Kim Lajoie · Post by **Kim Lajoie** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:57 am

Ben | KvR wrote:They will be replaced with Monthly Rankings.

Gotcha. That's even better, because it allows ratings to reflect current opinion.

Forever,

Kim.

ebinary · Post by **ebinary** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:01 pm

I think the numbers are critical. But maybe just an overall number. Or the developer can pick the appropritate ratings category for his synth (leave off GUI if there is no GUI for example).

If there were no numbers, I doubt I would have ever read a review. The numbers peak my curiosity and then I read the text.

I personally don't think the text needs to be that long either.

Eric

Post by **Ben [KVR]** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:03 pm

ebinary wrote:If there were no numbers, I doubt I would have ever read a review. The numbers peak my curiosity and then I read the text.

So you read the Pros and Cons first.

Armadillo · Post by **Armadillo** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:32 pm

WhiteNoise wrote:
shamann wrote:
WhiteNoise wrote:Number ratings always will be purely subjective.. so are written reviews for that matter. That's doesn't mean they aren't helpful.
Agreed, but it's not so much subjectivity as arbitrariness that's the problem. I'd be all for it if reviewers had the critical faculties to actually have a reason for giving stars. Many it seems just pick numbers out of their hats.
What's wrong with saying "Rate this synth 1-10, with 1 being unusable, 5 being average, and 10 being the absolute best sounding synth you have ever heard"? The numbers are arbitrary when compared with other synths but it's a rating based on THAT person's perception of THAT synth.. Of course if you compare them to other synths then it doesn't necessarily mean anything. What I want to be able to do is look at a review page and get a general idea what everyone thought of it. If something gets all 10's, I know everyone liked it. If it gets low marks I know people hate it for some reason. I don't need to know which synth scored the best, since it's not that kind of ranking.

I'll second that. I don't wanna spend 5 min. reading a review just to find out if the product the plugin is crap. If I can see the plugin has a score like 4/10 I wouldn't bother reading the review, as in, if all the reviews had an average of 4/10. If a plugin had an average of 8/10 but with a single 4/10 review, I'd of course be curious to why it's only rated 4/10 by a single user.

But I would also like a rating system going from 0-100.
Imposcar, Z3ta, Pentagon, Cameleon etc. might all get 9/10, but a rating like 85% or 95% would be better and more precise, although require more from the reviewer.

KVR Audio

RFC - Review Shakeup