Kind attention - Stargardtian | RESOLVED - Thanks all for the help!

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LoveEnigma18
KVRian
1291 posts since 12 Jan, 2018

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:52 am

Musical Gym wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:21 am
You also might consider modifying the topic title to something softer than "Beware of...."
He/she might be more inclined to read it and further discuss with you a possible resolution.
Sure, I have done that now. Thanks. I have also sent messages to him in PayPal resolution center.

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LoveEnigma18
KVRian
1291 posts since 12 Jan, 2018

Re: Beware of this guy - Stargardtian

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:54 am

AnX wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:41 am
want me to rub him out?
Perhaps not now. I want to give him a chance to resolve it peacefully. His intentions don't seem wrong, but what he did seems to be from his own misunderstanding and panic.

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Mathematics
KVRian
641 posts since 10 Sep, 2015 from You haven't unlocked this character yet

Re: Beware of this guy - Stargardtian

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:11 am

Classic case of chargeback fraud. That's the technical term for it. I'm sure this isn't the case but if he is reluctant to work with you, you can try to escalate this through PayPal but they don't offer any protection for intangible items, like "agharta" mentioned above.

This happens all the time, but maliciously where someone buys an online code, reports it to PayPal as "not as described" and they keep the serial, their money, and you've lost the amount you sold it for, the serial you sold, and you're charged a chargeback fee. This happened to me about 5 years ago. I got the serial replaced and the chargeback fee reversed. I don't know how differently PP handles this now, but I actually had a police report filed in his state because PP told me they wouldn't do anything for me seeing as how I sold a non-tangible item. I got that advice from reading an online post by a lawyer. Several things came from this as a result of me calling the cops, in his local county because his address showed up on eBay, and having a deputy file the police report. For the record, I'm not making any comparison here...I'm actually sure he's just a moron and everything will pan out sooner than later.

So, he got banned from PP for life. His account was terminated with eBay and he was banned from eBay for life. He also had his Playstation account banned for life and his Playstation 4 console was permanently banned from the PSN network, for life as well, because it was "used to activate stolen software." Did he learn his lesson? Maybe...lol. Anyway, the take-away from this was that, if PP is no help, a documented police report can legitimize one's case, AND THEN PP seems to think you're actually serious because inherently, they default to thinking you're just joking.

To avoid all this, on eBay or PP, you must physically mail out an actual piece of paper with the serial written down on it, to the buyer. Personally, I'm not mailing anything out. I trust you guys and I guess I have some credibility seeing as how I've had transactions with many users on here. Obviously, we trust everyone here, and this guy knew exactly what he was buying. If he didn't, I'm sorry, but I'll be the first to admit that he's a moron if he actually misinterpreted your clearly written post for the K11 Update.

Whatever. I truly hope this gets resolved because I'm very curious how this works out. I think we're all eager to hear that everything resolved quickly with NI. I have a feeling they'll be the heroes in worst case by reissuing you a serial and canceling the previous one as well as removing his from his NI account and possible lose his account...ah, ok...no ill thought here. Lol, I just had to throw that in.

I would also suggest to edit the title to something a bit less threatening. No need to add fuel to the fire...but that's my opinion. Take everything I said with a grain of salt. In fact, take everyone's advice with a grain of salt because PP will be minimal help in this situation, unfortunately. NI, on the other hand...they remind me of Izotope - they always protect their family members, even from themselves. He won't get far. Just keep all emails and conversation WELL DOCUMENTED chronologically with a one sentence description of what occurred at that time. That's how the cops like it...short and to the point. One sentence. (ignore and disregard misspells and typos; it's late and I' just too tired to proofread this)

The End.
Last edited by Mathematics on Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
...and the electron responded, "what wall?"

ghettosynth
KVRAF
12083 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Re: Beware of this guy - Stargardtian

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:13 am

AnX wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:41 am
want me to rub him out?
LOL!

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LoveEnigma18
KVRian
1291 posts since 12 Jan, 2018

Re: Beware of this guy - Stargardtian

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:36 am

Thanks for your time and for sharing your experience. It really broadens the understanding on such situations and how to react to them. If it is really a fraud, I would be very, very careful in future when dealing with anyone. It becomes difficult to trust when such things happen.
Mathematics wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:11 am
Whatever. I truly hope this gets resolved because I'm very curious how this works out. I think we're all eager to hear that everything resolved quickly with NI. I have a feeling they'll be the heroes in worst case by reissuing you a serial and canceling the previous one as well as removing his from his NI account and possible lose his account...ah, ok...no ill thought here. Lol, I just had to throw that in.
Thanks, and you know, I have already thought about this great idea you have mentioned. I have a very good relationship with Native Instruments and hopefully they will understand my situation. Don't really want to do this, so it would be my last resort.
Just keep all emails and conversation WELL DOCUMENTED chronologically with a one sentence description of what occurred at that time. That's how the cops like it...short and to the point. One sentence. (ignore and disregard misspells and typos; it's late and I' just too tired to proofread this)
Yes, everything is there in PMs. If required, I will take screenshots and document them.

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LoveEnigma18
KVRian
1291 posts since 12 Jan, 2018

Re: Kind attention - Stargardtian

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:51 am

Does the negative PayPal balance indicate that buyer will get the money back without me actually refunding it?

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Mathematics
KVRian
641 posts since 10 Sep, 2015 from You haven't unlocked this character yet

Re: Kind attention - Stargardtian

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:09 am

LoveEnigma18 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:51 am
Does the negative PayPal balance indicate that buyer will get the money back without me actually refunding it?
Yes. PP happily takes your money, and gives it to him WITHOUT your authorization, and sometimes, without even notifying you that they did - well eventually they'll tell you the case results are in your account. These are all short term effects...the long term is what really matters. Just play this out and please let us know what happens.
...and the electron responded, "what wall?"

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LoveEnigma18
KVRian
1291 posts since 12 Jan, 2018

Re: Kind attention - Stargardtian

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:22 am

Mathematics wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:09 am
LoveEnigma18 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:51 am
Does the negative PayPal balance indicate that buyer will get the money back without me actually refunding it?
Yes. PP happily takes your money, and gives it to him WITHOUT your authorization, and sometimes, without even notifying you that they did - well eventually they'll tell you the case results are in your account. These are all short term effects...the long term is what really matters. Just play this out and please let us know what happens.
What the f? This is disgusting from PayPal. I hope it all sorts out in favour of both. I do need $34 right now despite it being a small amount, or I would be happy to get the license back and refund.

But let's say if PayPal gives the money and then we have a case where buyer gives back the license and I need to refund, will I actually still be losing the money that PP took initially? Basically it would be almost $34 x 2 for me.

Sure, I will keep everyone informed, thanks.

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JNS WRNHD
KVRist
258 posts since 21 Aug, 2018 from Sweden

Re: Kind attention - Stargardtian

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:47 am

I´ve been had here on kvr and got the good advice to check out the buyers history on kvr before a transaction. Stargardtian seem to have joined last week and has 0 public posts (this could indicate a scammer in doing). Just paying the tip forward. I hope everything turns out fine for you.

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LoveEnigma18
KVRian
1291 posts since 12 Jan, 2018

Re: Kind attention - Stargardtian

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:51 am

JNS WRNHD wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:47 am
I´ve been had here on kvr and got the good advice to check out the buyers history on kvr before a transaction. Stargardtian seem to have joined last week and has 0 public posts (this could indicate a scammer in doing). Just paying the tip forward. I hope everything turns out fine for you.
I did notice that before dealing with him, yes, but since he was communicative I trusted him. Also, I was not aware of this PayPal disputes thing and how it works, else I would have been more careful. Thanks though, I am hoping to hear back from him.

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mgw38
KVRAF
2132 posts since 26 Jul, 2015 from Philadelphia

Re: Kind attention - Stargardtian

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:01 am

LoveEnigma18 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:51 am
JNS WRNHD wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:47 am
I´ve been had here on kvr and got the good advice to check out the buyers history on kvr before a transaction. Stargardtian seem to have joined last week and has 0 public posts (this could indicate a scammer in doing). Just paying the tip forward. I hope everything turns out fine for you.
I did notice that before dealing with him, yes, but since he was communicative I trusted him. Also, I was not aware of this PayPal disputes thing and how it works, else I would have been more careful. Thanks though, I am hoping to hear back from him.
Well, that is Paypal's buyer protection. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

testman3thousand
KVRist
37 posts since 5 Mar, 2019

Re: Kind attention - Stargardtian

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:40 am

what a messed up situation. I hope this gets sorted out for you soon. good luck buddy.

omiroad
KVRist
372 posts since 16 Mar, 2015

Re: Kind attention - Stargardtian

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:46 am

These things rarely seem to happen here, but I'm sad that they happen at all.

I've also noticed that people who go with the asking price tend to be the easiest to deal with.

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hivkorn
KVRAF
3173 posts since 6 Sep, 2007 from France

Re: Kind attention - Stargardtian

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:27 am

it's a problem i expect since a long moment , i don't know if it often hapens but it is one reason i stop to buy/sell stuff from 2 hand.
they scam buyer , now they scam seller....

i am sorry for you LoveEnigma18 and i hope you will be refund and NI give you back your licence.

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mgw38
KVRAF
2132 posts since 26 Jul, 2015 from Philadelphia

Re: Kind attention - Stargardtian

Post Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:34 am

No offense, but scamming somebody out of a K11 update after having negotiated the price down to $34 does not sound like the crime of the century to me. Sounds more like a genuine misunderstanding.

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