general Music Cafe discussion thread

[Aliens]

Too many rules, and what for? Hurt feelings and/or jealousy? Can't be for simplicity. Looks like control freaking to settle agendas.

The only one I'd consider as maybe necessary, as it's open to abuse and shameless self promotion is the self bump one, but as has been pointed out above, policing it is interpretive so best left as is. End of the day it's not a contest. One poster isn't hurt by another being at the top of the forum. Cream always rises to the top eventually.
I like the idea of Wagtune's corner. Everyone should consider doing it. It will surely negate having many threads from one person, if that's an issue anyway, when one will do. That makes it much easier to click on or ignore as required.
Wait one week before submitting new tracks, well that's whack. It's music cafe, not music formal restaurant with reservations, jackets and ties. Free for all is the spirit of the game. Embrace it.

[whyterabbyt]

Is it appropriate:
* to start lots of new threads per day and ignore other users?

That is just poor forum etiquette, which usually results in such users being ignored.

Exactly. Its self-selection for being noise, same as the (permitted, by the way) 'hey random company you've never heard of or cared about have just releases a new blah' single posts that we continuously get in the soundware/sample/instrument forums.

[whyterabbyt]

Since I started the thread, I should probably add my two cents. I think the following set of Music Cafe guidelines would discourage inconsiderate behavior and reduce controversies in the future:

1. You are allowed to start one new thread per week. It can be a completed track, a WIP, or doodle. Individual track submissions will provide more focused feedback but album submissions are also permitted. The thread must contain more than just a link. There should be some explanation of your submission. It is helpful to indicate if you are looking for a specific kind of feedback. Listing instruments or equipment used is encouraged.

2. You are allowed to bump one of your tracks per week. Of course, you can make an unlimited number of replies to other posters and active conversations are encouraged. But self-bumps by the OP that add nothing new are restricted to one per week.

3. You are expected to acknowledge feedback. Posting your music and ignoring feedback is inconsiderate.

4. For every thread you start, you are expected to give feedback to at least one other poster. The feedback can be as brief as "cool track" but you should participate in other threads at least in a small way.

5. You cannot repost an old song in a new thread. Just bump the original thread. An exception can be made if the prior thread is very old and has a lot of irrelevant information.

6. Each thread is specific to the music or submission in the first post. If you want to submit more music, wait one week and start another thread. Endlessly self-bumped "Wagtunes Corner"-style threads are not permitted.

7. Your submission must be your creation. Remixes or bootlegs of other artists' material are not permitted. Cover versions (a new performance of someone else's song) are allowed.

I for one welcome our new music fascist overlords.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Since I started the thread, I should probably add my two cents. I think the following set of Music Cafe guidelines would discourage inconsiderate behavior and reduce controversies in the future:

1. You are allowed to start one new thread per week. It can be a completed track, a WIP, or doodle. Individual track submissions will provide more focused feedback but album submissions are also permitted. The thread must contain more than just a link. There should be some explanation of your submission. It is helpful to indicate if you are looking for a specific kind of feedback. Listing instruments or equipment used is encouraged.

2. You are allowed to bump one of your tracks per week. Of course, you can make an unlimited number of replies to other posters and active conversations are encouraged. But self-bumps by the OP that add nothing new are restricted to one per week.

3. You are expected to acknowledge feedback. Posting your music and ignoring feedback is inconsiderate.

4. For every thread you start, you are expected to give feedback to at least one other poster. The feedback can be as brief as "cool track" but you should participate in other threads at least in a small way.

5. You cannot repost an old song in a new thread. Just bump the original thread. An exception can be made if the prior thread is very old and has a lot of irrelevant information.

6. Each thread is specific to the music or submission in the first post. If you want to submit more music, wait one week and start another thread. Endlessly self-bumped "Wagtunes Corner"-style threads are not permitted.

7. Your submission must be your creation. Remixes or bootlegs of other artists' material are not permitted. Cover versions (a new performance of someone else's song) are allowed.

I for one welcome our new music fascist overlords.

Yeah! He seems to have over-egged the mixture, somewhat

[whyterabbyt]

Yeah! He seems to have over-egged the mixture, somewhat

Hmmm. I can only guess he actually just hates music....

1. You are allowed to start one new thread per week.

6. Each thread is specific to the music or submission in the first post.

At a very rough headcount I think that would affect around 1/3rd of the posters on the most recent 6 or 7 pages of the Cafe.

Because what KVR needs is to restrict people from posting music. That's definitely something that needs solving.

Oh, and byebye competitions.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Since I started the thread, I should probably add my two cents. I think the following set of Music Cafe guidelines would discourage inconsiderate behavior and reduce controversies in the future:

1. You are allowed to start one new thread per week. It can be a completed track, a WIP, or doodle. Individual track submissions will provide more focused feedback but album submissions are also permitted. The thread must contain more than just a link. There should be some explanation of your submission. It is helpful to indicate if you are looking for a specific kind of feedback. Listing instruments or equipment used is encouraged.

2. You are allowed to bump one of your tracks per week. Of course, you can make an unlimited number of replies to other posters and active conversations are encouraged. But self-bumps by the OP that add nothing new are restricted to one per week.

3. You are expected to acknowledge feedback. Posting your music and ignoring feedback is inconsiderate.

4. For every thread you start, you are expected to give feedback to at least one other poster. The feedback can be as brief as "cool track" but you should participate in other threads at least in a small way.

5. You cannot repost an old song in a new thread. Just bump the original thread. An exception can be made if the prior thread is very old and has a lot of irrelevant information.

6. Each thread is specific to the music or submission in the first post. If you want to submit more music, wait one week and start another thread. Endlessly self-bumped "Wagtunes Corner"-style threads are not permitted.

7. Your submission must be your creation. Remixes or bootlegs of other artists' material are not permitted. Cover versions (a new performance of someone else's song) are allowed.

Ok! Let's have a go at this:

1. I agree with making the effort to introduce the post, and provide as much info as the poster would like, but I don't think we are at the stage of "must". I also don't feel there's a need to enforce a once-per-week ruling. Most people just know not to be obnoxious about it, and let everyone play.

2. No need to regulate this, either, until such point as it gets abused. Often, someone will post something at a time when nobody is available or interested to listen. Posts can drop out of sight, relatively speaking, without anybody having seen it. People should be able to give their stuff a friendly nudge so that people can see it.

3. Yup! This is something i feel should be strongly encouraged, but a rule? This is one of the points that I think might be better mentioned in an etiquette thread, rather than a hard rule.

4. Another one for the etiquette thread.

5. Huh?

6. Well, I'm one of a few people who seem to be in favour of those who are more prolific to have their own multi-post thread

7. I wouldn't ban remixes

[experimental.crow]

remixes are addressed in the current KvR Cafe Guidelines :
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 14&t=76259

[Frantz]

remixes are addressed in the current KvR Cafe Guidelines :
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 14&t=76259

The guidelines are confusing. Remixes you made are permitted but DJ Mixes are not. What does that mean?

Please note that the KVR Music Cafe is intended for members to post music that they have made (original compositions, remixes, cover versions, etc.). It is NOT intended for DJ Mixes, so please do not post them.

[Frantz]

5. You cannot repost an old song in a new thread. Just bump the original thread. An exception can be made if the prior thread is very old and has a lot of irrelevant information.

5. Huh?

You would be surprised but this happens from time to time. Sometimes I am listening to a "new" song which sounds very familiar. Then I look at the poster's history and it turns out they submitted the same track last month, ignored all feedback, and reposted it in a new thread.

Another recent example was a guy posted a track and got positive feedback on it. Then after it fell off the front page of the Cafe, he reposted the same track as a new "What genre is this?" thread.

[Frantz]

Is it appropriate:
* to start lots of new threads per day and ignore other users?

That is just poor forum etiquette, which usually results in such users being ignored.

Exactly. Its self-selection for being noise, same as the (permitted, by the way) 'hey random company you've never heard of or cared about have just releases a new blah' single posts that we continuously get in the soundware/sample/instrument forums.

Is it self-selection for being noise or is it an artist doing a sketchbook dump which you think is valid?

[Frantz]

Who gets to decide what 'adds nothing new' is? It's interpretive. I can bump something and pretend there's something new, and people might be rather clever about it, and again that's up for someone in charge (Hink? DH? Ben? Who's the nominee?) to sort out.

Of course, things are open to interpretation and guidelines are suggestions not iron clad rules. When it becomes obvious too many guidelines are being violated, you can report someone to a moderator. If the moderator has clear guidelines, then they can take action. As it stands now, the moderator looks at the situation, says there are no clear guidelines against what Silke did, and ultimately does nothing.

Regarding the point about self-bumping. Often it's very obvious there is nothing new and the only addition to the thread is one post containing the word, "bump." If you really want to lock this issue down, in another forum I participate in, posts lock after several minutes and cannot be edited so it is very clear what is new and what is not.

[chk071]

I for one welcome our new music fascist overlords.

Are you talking about Silke F?

[whyterabbyt]

I for one welcome our new music fascist overlords.

Are you talking about Silke F?

Why, did SilkeF also post a ludicrously restrictive set of rules to make people follow when posting music in the Cafe?

[elassi]

My suggestion: Mods lock any Silke-F-thread as soon as it appears.

Because s/he is not answering anyway, it doesn't matter if one is able to reply or not.

One day s/he will run out of tracks and the problem will be gone.

[elassi]

I for one welcome our new music fascist overlords.

Isn't it sort of a fascist attitude itself to permanently correct people when they do or say something wrong (at least in your eyes)?