general Music Cafe discussion thread

[Unaspected]

You're welcome.

I said this in another thread as well, I am a mod 24/7, in fact I set my notifications to go to my phone and subscribe to hot topics constantly. I am a mod when I'm on a date, eating, sleeping, in my own studio and I have no complaint when my phone wakes me (every night) or interrupts me because the love I have for this place is deep. I'm on KvR all day, I read 1000's of posts but at the end of the day it's still never enough. I can always use the assitance of members, I do get PM's, people report threads (and I that helps a lot is is appreciated) and then some people just sit around and think we are doing nothing yet can take the time to complain instead of perhaps giving us a headsup.

Again though, I care about this place and the people here so I devote countless hours to this place, most of which goes completely unseen. I dont expect much appreciation, I do expect judgement but it might help if people stopped going with their automatic thoughts and stopped to think about other possibilities. That is better for everyone as opposed to pointing fingers at mods saying we dont do enough when you have no clue how much we do

You're welcome

I dare say you're going above and beyond but I've got to respect that. It can be tough, making the right decision. And, indeed, it's always best to act with the backing of the team - which can sometimes take a little time when things are run democratically.

[wagtunes]

General conduct guidelines are already in place.

Agreed..I had a look!

But...

They are NOT being enforced effectively.

Other forums I use (including one that I helped run for years) are much more pro-active on the moderation side to make sure that it all runs smoothly.

I've always been amazed at how 'invisible' the moderators are on KVR and how unacceptable behaviour goes on for so long without apparent intervention.

if you did indeed help run another forum you would understand there is far more to the picture in most cases that are seen. You are not privy to the reports or PM's so again you should understand my point.

I said this in another thread as well, I am a mod 24/7, in fact I set my notifications to go to my phone and subscribe to hot topics constantly. I am a mod when I'm on a date, eating, sleeping, in my own studio and I have no complaint when my phone wakes me (every night) or interrupts me because the love I have for this place is deep. I'm on KvR all day, I read 1000's of posts but at the end of the day it's still never enough. I can always use the assitance of members, I do get PM's, people report threads (and I that helps a lot is is appreciated) and then some people just sit around and think we are doing nothing yet can take the time to complain instead of perhaps giving us a headsup.

Again though, I care about this place and the people here so I devote countless hours to this place, most of which goes completely unseen. I dont expect much appreciation, I do expect judgement but it might help if people stopped going with their automatic thoughts and stopped to think about other possibilities. That is better for everyone as opposed to pointing fingers at mods saying we dont do enough when you have no clue how much we do

You're welcome

It's easy to forget how much work goes into running this place and I'm sorry for any lack of patience I had with the situation. I was rattled a bit as I imagined what was going on continuing for who knows how long.

But then I remembered that you of all people have ALWAYS been there to come to my aid, and to also give me a kick in the ass when the problem was my fault or, at the very least, exacerbated by my own behavior. I could always count on you giving it to me straight. In my panic earlier, I forgot that and for that I am truly sorry. You're the one person here who I know I can always come to.

That aside, I'd like to return to the actual subject of this thread.

I've had a lot of time to think about this. Keeping a balance in the Music Cafe is a tightrope act. No rules and you have chaos. Too many rules and you have people leaving the forum because it simply becomes void of any enjoyment.

I'm not smart enough to know what the answer is. Some people see my own posting behavior (I post one track per day inside of one thread that I've set up) as acceptable while others think it is excessive. Ultimately, I guess that's up for the mods to decide and I will abide by any decision that they make.

Personally, I don't think there's enough activity in Music Cafe. You're lucky to get 5 new tracks in a day. Let's face it. It takes a long time to produce a song and not everybody in this forum even goes to this sub forum. I'm always looking for tracks to comment on and I can tell you, there are days when I'm going hours without having even one new one to listen to. Do we really want to cut the activity even more than that?

Anyway, it's not my call. I'll go with whatever rules get made. But if rules ARE going to be made then they have to be enforced. Otherwise, what's the point?

I am interested to know what others think.

[Unaspected]

I would address it under "keeping the forum tidy". It's as simple as that and doesn't require any new rules to be made. The majority of people are going to conduct themselves in a civil manner. It is not unreasonable for us to expect this.

[Frantz]

Yes i saw that. And the object of your complaints, at the time of the initiation of your complaints, would not have been covered by this proposal.

I am not following you. The object of said complaints started 3 new Music Cafe threads on one day and 10 new threads on the next day. Both are in excess of the proposed limit of 2.

[Frantz]

Another proposal could be something like "Please don't be selfish. Leave space on the stage for other artists." (better English preferred)

I am open to all suggestions. However, if you make something specific and testable (did they start more than 2 new threads today? (True/False)), it is straightforward for a mod to enforce. If you are vague, then it requires difficult judgement calls.

[whyterabbyt]

I am interested to know what others think.

I think that if we're considering placing restrictions on people for posting music more than once a day, we should also be considering what to do people who cross-post the same complaints about other users across multiple threads in a space of a couple of days, even after they've reported the person they've been complaining about.
Its classifiable as bullying, or deliberate provocation, and its also effectively a refusal to accept the moderation process.
And people guilty of it might not be the best choice to dictate what the moderators have to enforce

[Unaspected]

I am interested to know what others think.

I think that if we're considering placing restrictions on people for posting music more than once a day, we should also be considering what to do people who cross-post the same complaints about other users across multiple threads in a space of a couple of days, even after they've reported the person they've been complaining about.
Its classifiable as bullying, or deliberate provocation, and its also effectively a refusal to accept the moderation process.
And people guilty of it might not be the best choice to dictate what the moderators have to enforce

I strongly agree with this.

[Frantz]

I think that if we're considering placing restrictions on people for posting music more than once a day, we should also be considering what to do people who cross-post the same complaints about other users across multiple threads in a space of a couple of days, even after they've reported the person they've been complaining about.

Now back to your favorite topic -- your smear campaign against me. I opened this thread based on a moderator suggestion. A lot of people other than myself have been discussing that user's behavior. Feel free to report me if you feel that is appropriate.

[whyterabbyt]

Yes i saw that. And the object of your complaints, at the time of the initiation of your complaints, would not have been covered by this proposal.

I am not following you. The object of said complaints started 3 new Music Cafe threads on one day and 10 new threads on the next day. Both are in excess of the proposed limit of 2.

On the day that you started complaining, which was a complaint that someone had 3 threads on the front page, a rather different thing, the object of your complaint had not posted any music.
They only posted two threads the day before that. And one the day before that.
In fact, overall, they were averaging one thread every other day, which has been pointed out to you before.

[Unaspected]

One reason that the previous issue escalated as it did was because the mods were not left to deal with it. I can understand long standing members who contribute regularly wanting to protect the forum, I have no issue with that at all - but the level of hostility seemed disproportionate to me.

This is why I suggested earlier that I trust in the mods. You really don't have a choice and it isn't our place to say. A quiet PM to express any issues you may be experiencing should be enough.

[Frantz]

On the day that you started complaining...

I am not engaging with you any further since I feel that you have an unhealthy axe to grind with me.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Another proposal could be something like "Please don't be selfish. Leave space on the stage for other artists." (better English preferred)

However, as already said, I'm sure we don't really need it once the waters are calm again.

Actually, until such time as something like this happens again, I think something like that is the only thing that we need

[thecontrolcentre]

On the day that you started complaining...

I am not engaging with you any further since I feel that you have an unhealthy axe to grind with me.

A PM to a mod would have been enough, rather than suggesting a ton of new rules to deal with one 'rogue' poster.

[Unaspected]

Whilst I only really started getting involved here during this drama, I have been visiting this forum regularly to read posts and check out plugins for several years before I signed up. A week or so ago there was someone posting skins, making several new threads. I have no use for skins, I don't see the attraction and that user's posts seemed like spam to me.

It was clutter and something for a mod to deal with. I didn't report it.

[whyterabbyt]

I am not engaging with you any further since I feel that you have an unhealthy axe to grind with me.

I consider this highly ironic.