general Music Cafe discussion thread

[jancivil]

Is that spicy like General Tso's Chicken?

Sort of like that but the flavor is bitter and sour.

And some of it has gone bad.



Including mine

[jancivil]

Is it appropriate: to start lots of new threads per day and ignore other users?

Of course not. I don't know if it's worth setting a limit (Like I said before, most people just wouldn't even think to do it).

I do think that it should be made clear that hit-and-run posting is not tolerated, and that posters should be prepared to engage with those who take the time to listen and comment - This ain't no 'free cloud storage'!

So there was a little bit of an uprising, and then a moderator was policing that.
What would be the limit? This was one person at a given time. We've seen people post that much or near to it but they didn't vacate the premises as far as interacting with the community, and/or sometimes they were almost entirely ignored with few views and no comments. I think the bizarre video titles made feedback compelling; but just leaving it there (and it's too easy to imagine someone sitting back and watching it while deciding not to interact) is where the issue really lies, for me anyway. That is so arrogant, like this forum is nothing but a place to further one's agenda, and f**k you clowns.

The little uprising should be a signal to all, generally, though. I don't think a person that would do this is going a tiny f**k about this, so what would the moderation of this look like? It's not my job but I think not addressing it inthread was a total copout.

[Unaspected]

That's a much better angle for discussion.

Is it appropriate:
* to use the Music Cafe as a sketch pad?

I don't see a problem with that. If someone has created something they feel they want to share then that's what they should do.

If they happen to be especially prolific, however, I think that consolidation in a single thread makes most sense.

Is it appropriate:
* to start lots of new threads per day and ignore other users?

That is just poor forum etiquette, which usually results in such users being ignored.

Is it appropriate:
* for users to complain about other users spamming the Cafe?

Considering how this started, I think a single PM to a mod would have been a better way to do things, rather than seeking validation by derailing someone else's thread - even if the OP isn't replying. That said, if the user that was being discussed is a troll then you can't really derail the threads started by such a person.

Nothing wrong with people making complaints but it's down to the moderators to make the decisions and I would imagine such a parallel thread already exists in the mod forum.

I trust in the mods.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

What would be the limit?

I don't think it need be a number; Rather, people should be encouraged to not be bullish, and allow everyone space to share. And if someone comes along that just doesn't give a shit, a moderator could just suggest that they just either space it out a bit, or (And I think this might have been a good question to put to the thread/throng) suggest that they open a 'corner'

Normally, this stuff tends to work itself out. Given time, everyone would have got pissed that a certain user didn't give a shit about their feedback, and would stop bothering to listen. In this case, however, I doubt the poster in question would have taken the hint

Edited: Because I still can't get it together to proofread before hitting 'submit'

[imrae]

Hypothetically, how would we feel if a pro studio started posting everything they recorded in Music Cafe without otherwise engaging with the forum users?

[Unaspected]

Hypothetically, how would we feel if a pro studio started posting everything they recorded in Music Cafe without otherwise engaging with the forum users?

I would expect a professional studio to present in a professional manner and keep everything to a single thread. I would also hope that they would offer more to the forum by helping out other users.

[Hink]

I don't think it need be a number; Rather, people should be encouraged to not be bullish, and allow everyone space to share.

Absolutely

And if someone comes along that just doesn't give a shit, a moderator could just suggest that they just either space it out a bit, or (And I think this might have been a good question to put to the thread/throng) suggest that they open a 'corner'

I did give this consideration but decided to give it time partly because of the speed at which the cafe travels and also because of the next quote. Once again the question of where to draw the line comes up though and has been pointed out by several members, others have done similar (maybe not 10 though).

Normally, this stuff tends to work itself out. Given time, everyone would have got pissed that a certain user didn't give a shit about their feedback, and would stop bothering to listen. In this case, however, I doubt the poster in question would have taken the hint

This is pretty much my experience as well, it works itself out and hopefully this remains atypical. Opening a dialog is good though because if it is to become a trend perhaps we can resolve it before it becomes an issue

[jancivil]

What would be the limit?

I don't think it need be a number; Rather, people should be encouraged to not be bullish, and allow everyone space to share. And if someone comes along that just doesn't give a shit, a moderator could just suggest that they just either space it out a bit, or (And I think this might have been a good question to put to the thread/throng) suggest that they open a 'corner'

Normally, this stuff tends to work itself out. Given time, everyone would have got pissed that a certain user didn't give a shit about their feedback, and would stop bothering to listen. In this case, however, I doubt the poster in question would have taken the hint

I'm in agreement about all of this. It looks like an exception to the norm here, though, hence the 'need' for this thread; people decided to defend Silke F because people were getting rough. Rather than the norm which has been more or less ignoring the particular poster 'overposting'. Another factor that is not general is the clickbait thread titles which to me in the end are reducible to 'You can all kiss my ass', part of an actual video title.

[jancivil]

Hypothetically, how would we feel if a pro studio started posting everything they recorded in Music Cafe without otherwise engaging with the forum users?

If the link in the thread involves direct sales it's spam, no doubt. By the 'letter of the law'; the 'spirit of the law' has been violated even if it doesn't, IMO.

[jancivil]

Considering how this started, I think a single PM to a mod would have been a better way to do things, rather than seeking validation by derailing someone else's thread - even if the OP isn't replying. That said, if the user that was being discussed is a troll then you can't really derail the threads started by such a person.

From my perspective all bets were off due to the nature of this. Did no one PM a moderator? I didn't think it even close to reportable. Seeking validation, well everyone that posts music is to a smaller or larger extent.

I have to say this, that controversy drives view counts. So as a reaction to having two threads where I have to admit I wanted the things heard bumped back in one swoop I bumped some of my own. And I suppose due to my opinions I see more views of those, significantly, than is normal. So the approach [to be a dick] Silke F took looks like clever strategy. I wouldn't do that simply because it's common courtesy not to. But once controversy arises, it amounts to publicity if you have exposure and this mini-tempest generated something to read hence exposure for everybody.

[jancivil]

(just another case of music causing BIG TROUBLE)

right here , in river city ...

[BertKoor]

Now the Axel F threads make sense [ I dont frequent the cafe]

Hypothetically, how would we feel if a pro studio started posting everything they recorded in Music Cafe without otherwise engaging with the forum users?

Well, there are users in the sampling forum that do nothing else than post youtube links to their "first look" (unboxing?) of various sample libs. Just for Google references to their tube channel, not to give something to this community. It makes me feel used.

[Frantz]

Since I started the thread, I should probably add my two cents. I think the following set of Music Cafe guidelines would discourage inconsiderate behavior and reduce controversies in the future:

1. You are allowed to start one new thread per week. It can be a completed track, a WIP, or doodle. Individual track submissions will provide more focused feedback but album submissions are also permitted. The thread must contain more than just a link. There should be some explanation of your submission. It is helpful to indicate if you are looking for a specific kind of feedback. Listing instruments or equipment used is encouraged.

2. You are allowed to bump one of your tracks per week. Of course, you can make an unlimited number of replies to other posters and active conversations are encouraged. But self-bumps by the OP that add nothing new are restricted to one per week.

3. You are expected to acknowledge feedback. Posting your music and ignoring feedback is inconsiderate.

4. For every thread you start, you are expected to give feedback to at least one other poster. The feedback can be as brief as "cool track" but you should participate in other threads at least in a small way.

5. You cannot repost an old song in a new thread. Just bump the original thread. An exception can be made if the prior thread is very old and has a lot of irrelevant information.

6. Each thread is specific to the music or submission in the first post. If you want to submit more music, wait one week and start another thread. Endlessly self-bumped "Wagtunes Corner"-style threads are not permitted.

7. Your submission must be your creation. Remixes or bootlegs of other artists' material are not permitted. Cover versions (a new performance of someone else's song) are allowed.

[jancivil]

Well, that isn't going to happen because it will ultimately kill the Cafe IMO and it's a lot of rules which are entirely new. Who gets to vote on this? It'll have to implemented from the top, down and were it me I'd rather not be charged to do this much work. A strong reaction to one real day of abuse by one person. I mean I'm not having all that much skin removed from my ass by Wagtunes' Corner.

Problems arise such as:

self-bumps by the OP that add nothing new are restricted to one per week.

Who gets to decide what 'adds nothing new' is? It's interpretive. I can bump something and pretend there's something new, and people might be rather clever about it, and again that's up for someone in charge (Hink? DH? Ben? Who's the nominee?) to sort out.

[experimental.crow]

1. You are allowed to start one new thread per week. It can be a completed track, a WIP, or doodle. Individual track submissions will provide more focused feedback but album submissions are also permitted. The thread must contain more than just a link. There should be some explanation of your submission. It is helpful to indicate if you are looking for a specific kind of feedback. Listing instruments or equipment used is encouraged.

we have the ' member releases ' thread for this ...
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 664#829664