general Music Cafe discussion thread

Any problems with the site? How can we improve KVR?
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jancivil
KVRAF
19341 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Post Sat May 19, 2018 2:17 pm

I didn't derail the thread to talk about you, "Hink"; until you came in to accuse people of "blatantly" seeking to derail the discussion the only things I said about you, the moderator in-thread where the most controversy arose was on-topic.

I'm seeking to derail the thread, just because I did things off-topic. Please refrain from telling me my intentions. That is not respect. I was getting back on topic without your 'help'.

There are other videos here too, but you're focusing on me for doing something which is not unique to me in-thread. I'm done anyway, it was about banter with a couple of people FFS.
Last edited by jancivil on Sat May 19, 2018 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Aliens
KVRian
848 posts since 2 Oct, 2016 from DogGirlDon't

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sat May 19, 2018 2:18 pm

vurt wrote:
no porn links!
Well that'd be one eye dried

User avatar
thomekk
KVRAF
2527 posts since 3 May, 2003 from Germany

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sat May 19, 2018 2:33 pm

I think there are a lot of good thoughts/ideas inside the rules posted by Frantz.

Really would appreciate if some of those ideas could come in as good advice (maybe in the KVRQs)
And yeah, the idea to improve the rules is good and not bad! (Sarcasm is easy to do, so...)

But personally I'm not a friend of too many written out rules - as this can get complicated (as we see).
And I also would not like to have rules for the way of posting my stuff. And yes, I comment on other tracks - when I think having to say something or I simply like them. + when I find the time.

Thinking about how to avoid abuse (or call it whatever u want) is legit. Especially when there are no (or few) rules.
I would give a warning to the person what all this fuzz is here about about being not caring at all (ok, it happened) and eventually give a ban (if this scenario would continue).

Positive: Lots of extra communication was generated, so yeah it seems refreshing for the Music Cafe' routine :wink:
Btw. I also bumped desperately my last thread - because of no reactions.
And I like the wagtunes-idea of having one thread fits it all (to collect)! :)
Unimportant laughter New Album YouTube
music has become meaningless...we're just keep doing it

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Unaspected
KVRian
1107 posts since 4 May, 2012

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sat May 19, 2018 2:35 pm

I don't think the thread derailed all that much. Any modding that has been discussed was of a general nature other than the direct exchanges above. Jan was just talking with the rest of us and there was a natural flow to the thread. Then, as soon as Frantz brought something new to the table, we started to discuss it.

Aliens wrote:@Hink: ...

I hope you, as a mod, do absolutely nothing in this instance except lock the thread and advise us to grow up or stock up on tissues.
I agree, except for the lock.

elassi
KVRAF
2234 posts since 8 Sep, 2009

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sat May 19, 2018 2:46 pm

The mods could also take the 'dirty route' and delete the posts of the artist infamously known as "Silke F" due to copyright violation. ;)

Example: The lastest post (vid) featuring work of Zena Holloway.

On the other hand one could be inspired to copy "Silke F"'s music and add some own artwork to it. :idea:

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vurt
addled muppet weed
55121 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sat May 19, 2018 2:50 pm

elassi wrote:The mods could also take the 'dirty route' and delete the posts of the artist infamously known as "Silke F" due to copyright violation. ;)

Example: The lastest post (vid) featuring work of Zena Holloway.

On the other hand one could be inspired to copy "Silke F"'s music and add some own artwork to it. :idea:

but, then every video posted in the what are you listening to thread would also need deleting, or at least the majority. very little music on youtube is on the copyright owners page.
its a can of worms...
like spaghetti, who eats that shit?

elassi
KVRAF
2234 posts since 8 Sep, 2009

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sat May 19, 2018 2:58 pm

Not saying it's ideal, but a tool when no other method helps.

In addition, I'm pretty sure there already have been deletions due to copyright violation on KVR.

----
Another addition: Do you think "Silke F" will start a discussion about a deletion in regard to this reason? No, never, you bet.
Last edited by elassi on Sat May 19, 2018 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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thomekk
KVRAF
2527 posts since 3 May, 2003 from Germany

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sat May 19, 2018 3:01 pm

vurt wrote:
elassi wrote:The mods could also take the 'dirty route' and delete the posts of the artist infamously known as "Silke F" due to copyright violation. ;)

Example: The lastest post (vid) featuring work of Zena Holloway.

On the other hand one could be inspired to copy "Silke F"'s music and add some own artwork to it. :idea:

but, then every video posted in the what are you listening to thread would also need deleting, or at least the majority. very little music on youtube is on the copyright owners page.
its a can of worms...
like spaghetti, who eats that shit?
But because YouTube (or others) won't give a shit because of the opt in/opt out (not checking for copyright per se)
this has not to be an excuse for not doing it (I get ya point)?

That's another topic...
Unimportant laughter New Album YouTube
music has become meaningless...we're just keep doing it

User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
55121 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sat May 19, 2018 3:04 pm

elassi wrote:Not saying it's ideal, but a tool when no other method helps.

In addition, I'm pretty sure there already have been deletions due to copyright violation on KVR.

----
Another addition: Do you think "Silke F" will start a discussion about a deletion in regard to this reason? No, never, you bet.
thread isn't about her though, its about all café users ;)

elassi
KVRAF
2234 posts since 8 Sep, 2009

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sat May 19, 2018 3:10 pm

Sure, vurt.

Showing and demanding respect for other artists work is a topic in anyone's interest.

sjm
KVRAF
1972 posts since 17 Apr, 2004

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sat May 19, 2018 3:12 pm

Frantz wrote:Perhaps a less restrictive set of guidelines than the ones I originally proposed would work. The following are copied directly from another forum. Would some of these work here in the Music Cafe?

[...]
It's good to bring up points of contention like this and deal with them openly and constructively. I can only offer my personal opinion that overly complicated rules are normally a turn off, punishing the constructive majority because of the destructive minority.

So personally, I would not like over-zealous rules. I've always liked KVR's laissez fair approach. There would be no harm in providing some hints on etiquette, explaining why it's in everyone's interest to contribute to the discussion and be courteous. It's a simple truth that those who provide the most feedback are most likely to get the most (and best) feedback.

My reservations would mainly be that KVR and the cafe are surely supposed to just be fun places to hang out. I can visit the cafe, listen to some tunes and share opinions/feedback/jokes; isn't that the essence of it? I don't need rules to tell me how to have fun. Regimented fun is what corporate team-building exercises are about. Showing respect is about more than just ticking a bunch of check boxes on a rules list. Those who do not care for the spirit of the law find ways to circumvent it while still following the law to the letter. For example, I'll bump your song if you bump mine!

Instead, the best way to deal with things you don't like or think are questionable is to not support them. Ignore the poster and their songs. If the general consensus is that someone is spamming and should be ignored, that will happen of its own accord. Maybe not immediately, but with time. If someone realises that saturating the marketplace with tracks leads to less interest, where is their motivation to continue?

My 2c.


I don't really want to get into discussing the individual points on your list, but I would venture that someone could have a very good reason to want to post 2 songs at the same time, without breaking the "don't be a jerk" rule.



Art is what the audience makes of it, not what the creator made it to be.
Voted KVR's resident drunk Robert Smith impersonator (thanks Frantz!)

https://soundcloud.com/steevm/

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Unaspected
KVRian
1107 posts since 4 May, 2012

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sat May 19, 2018 3:22 pm

My post count just fell and the thread got shorter! :?

Sadly, Aliens' suggestion was not accepted.

User avatar
Hink
Rad Grandad
29815 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sat May 19, 2018 3:26 pm

Unaspected wrote:My post count just fell and the thread got shorter! :?

Sadly, Aliens' suggestion was not accepted.
sorry, mods never make the right decisions by everyone. This is site stuff, typically a place held for talking about subjects at hand.
Albert Einstein may have been a genius but his brother Frank was a monster

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Unaspected
KVRian
1107 posts since 4 May, 2012

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sat May 19, 2018 3:42 pm

Hink wrote:
Unaspected wrote:My post count just fell and the thread got shorter! :?

Sadly, Aliens' suggestion was not accepted.
sorry, mods never make the right decisions by everyone. This is site stuff, typically a place held for talking about subjects at hand.
Absolutely. I didn't think we strayed too far: You removed some further discussion regarding Silke F, some praise of Jan's work, a few jokes and also a post I made in reply to Jan which I guess didn't mean much but changes the context slightly as it now looks like I ignored her.

Not really sure why but that's your call.

User avatar
Aliens
KVRian
848 posts since 2 Oct, 2016 from DogGirlDon't

Re: general Music Cafe discussion thread

Post Sat May 19, 2018 3:53 pm

vurt wrote: thread isn't about her though, its about all café users ;)
Sure the outcome affects all users, but lets be under no illusion, it really is all about one member.

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