Sell & Buy (+Special Offers, Deals & Promos) Organisation

Any problems with the site? How can we improve KVR?
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Ben [KVR]
Mr KVR
1293 posts since 23 Oct, 2000 from Newport Pagnell, UK
KVR Audio

Post Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:28 am

Now we have sub-forum capability I think it's time to look at the organisation of the Sell & Buy (+Special Offers, Deals & Promos). It's a very busy forum and currently covers all buying and selling at KVR.

So, ideas for better organisation.

IMO the main Sell & Buy (+Special Offers, Deals & Promos) forum should be for private individuals buying and selling second hand products. Everything else should go in sub-forums. But how should it be broken down? We should look at how promos and sales topics that appear in other forums should be better organised too.

Ideas?

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Sampleconstruct
KVRAF
14698 posts since 12 Oct, 2008 from Here and there

Re: Market Place Organisation

Post Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:32 am

First of all a totally new forum just for soundware would be good. This could have sub-forums for sales/promos and/or group buys.

EDIT: the new soundware forum would include all soundware, sample-based as well as synth presets.

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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
27247 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: Market Place Organisation

Post Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:45 am

Buying/Selling Discussion : main parent (feedback thread, user-based discussions etc)
* Buying/Selling Plugins : sub-forum (as it says)
* Buying/Selling Other Software : sub-forum (as it says)
* Buying/Selling Samples and Presets : sub-forum (as it says)
* Buying/Selling Hardware : sub-forum (as it says)
* Promotions and Sales : sub-forum (vendor/dealer/company notices and announcements)

Oh, and for gawd's sake please make it mandatory that people who are working for companies and therefore involved in promoting them must must admit that in some way when posting about products they're involved with, either in the text body, or permanently have that indicated in their sig, avatar, or whatever.
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Astralp
KVRAF
2009 posts since 25 Feb, 2005 from Ganymede

Re: Market Place Organisation

Post Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:21 am

I hope that if sub forums are created all posts will still be in the parent folder, I'd rather they were like Filters to zero in on your interest. I say this because I use the rss feed to keep an eye on it and would rather just have a single feed, and also it's good to see 'surprises' in terms of things you normally wouldn't be actively looking for. I also like the way everything is jumbled together in the same place too, but Filtering would be a great improvement.

Lotuzia
KVRAF
10071 posts since 19 Feb, 2004 from Paris

Re: Market Place Organisation

Post Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:31 am

Maybe a separation between private sales ( individuals to individuals ) and company special sales ( b2c ), including group buys- intro prices etc would prove usefull. I dont think too many subforums are needed, but well, maybe its just me.

Also I sometimes wondered if a limit of say 5 consecutive posts from the same poster in the same thread would prove usefull ?

fact is however than in a market place, a post will shift in the second page sometimes within a few hours, and, while I think the "search" option is very usefull for people who want to buy something specific, the current situation is not very appealing for vendors, be them private or companies, as the exposure is very small, and limited in time. This said, this is from a potential vendor POV, so well, other posters might have different views on that as well.
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GaryG
KVRAF
5761 posts since 13 Jan, 2003 from Kent, UK

Re: Market Place Organisation

Post Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:37 am

whyterabbyt wrote:Buying/Selling Discussion : main parent (feedback thread, user-based discussions etc)
* Buying/Selling Plugins : sub-forum (as it says)
* Buying/Selling Other Software : sub-forum (as it says)
* Buying/Selling Samples and Presets : sub-forum (as it says)
* Buying/Selling Hardware : sub-forum (as it says)
* Promotions and Sales : sub-forum (vendor/dealer/company notices and announcements)
That seems a darn sensible set of sub-forums.

I'd add a forum for services too so users can advertise their on line mastering service or whatever.

Maybe a little contentious but I'd suggest a sub-forum purely for 'WTB' ads. Any other classifieds section would have separate 'for sale' and 'wanted' ads.
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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
27247 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: Market Place Organisation

Post Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:47 am

GaryG wrote:I'd add a forum for services too so users can advertise their on line mastering service or whatever.
Yup, that makes sense to me.
Maybe a little contentious but I'd suggest a sub-forum purely for 'WTB' ads. Any other classifieds section would have separate 'for sale' and 'wanted' ads.
And that.

So, something more like this:

Buying/Selling Discussion : main parent (feedback thread, user-based discussions etc)
* Want to Buy : sub-forum
* Selling (Plugins) : sub-forum
* Selling (Other Software) : sub-forum
* Selling (Samples and Presets) : sub-forum
* Selling (Hardware) : sub-forum
* Selling (Services) : sub-forum
* Promotions and Sales : sub-forum (vendor/dealer/company notices and announcements)
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Compyfox
KVRAF
14325 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany

Re: Market Place Organisation

Post Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:00 am

GearSlutz has a similar sub-board section, however a tad simpler:


- Gearslutz Secondhand gear classifieds (for software and hwardware)
- Deal Zone (like the current #KVRdeals section, and it could be used for sales by companies, group buys, etc)
- Books, DVDs & Gadgets (General stuff)
- Gearslutz Member Services Directory (for members only! to offer their music related services - members must(!) include additional info in their user account, or at least known for a while on KVR (like - at least 100-200 posts, and not just spam!)
- Studio spaces / studio shares - available or wanted (which is a nice info pool for available spaces worldwide)
- Jobs (Jobs Offered, Jobs Wanted - similar to "Member Services" - only that it's "open")


A mix of whyte's and the GS idea would be nice. Like:



whyterabbyt (with additions by Compyfox wrote:Buying/Selling Discussion : main parent (feedback thread, user-based discussions, rules, etc)
* Buying/Selling VST Instruments/VST Plugins: sub-forum (as it says)
* Buying/Selling Other Software : sub-forum (as it says, i.e. "Android/iOS apps, hosts, etc - if resellable!)
* Buying/Selling Samples and Presets : sub-forum (as it says)
* Buying/Selling Hardware : sub-forum (as it says)
* Promotions and Sales : sub-forum (vendor/dealer/company notices and announcements, deals like #KVRdeals, pinned thread on "Deals - no gossip)
* Services (by KVR users - offering users need a certain reputation and full info in their user account), maybe with "looking for" and "offering" subsection - or at least a selectable tag.
* User releases (CD's, DLC, books, videos, gadgets, etc - ideally no company release)
I think that's enough sub-sectioning.


IMPORTANT (in relation with the other thread on "post rules":

Companies are NOT allowed to bump their threads for at least 48-72hours (2-3 days), this covers the "Promotion" section. Since these developers usually know what's in queue in terms of "deals" and "breaking certain borders" - they can plan in advance

These threads also need(!!!) an information, when the deal is ending - gossip can be continued in the instruments/plugins section. The sale section shouldn't ideally pop up in the posts ticker to the right, to leave room for other threads.


If it's a "small ads" (classified, private) sale, then only one thread per sale and one thread per WTB. Users are allowed to have a WTB/FS/FT thread each in the aproriate sub-boards. But if they have (in parallel) a CD release, and/or offer services, that is allowed as well.


I am for a complete prohibition of PayPal "Gift" sales! If these people want to save money: SEPA or other money transfer.



There is probably more that I'm currently forgetting. But I'm sure others will add to that.
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Ghostwave
KVRAF
1568 posts since 1 Mar, 2010 from Paris

Re: Market Place Organisation

Post Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:12 am

I think we have to stay simple.

The general forum for people selling stuff second-hand.
A sub-forum for product releases / deals.
A last one for feedback: each user would have their own thread where people who have dealt with them can post.

I agree with a 48-hour bump limit on threads in the product releases / deals sub-forum.
I would also like to only allow users with a minimum of 50 post to make a thread in the market place. This way, we can avoid most spammers / scammers.
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Compyfox
KVRAF
14325 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany

Re: Market Place Organisation

Post Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:16 am

Then let's make it simpler!

based upon whyterabbyt's and my ideas:

Strangely enough, I can't use the list function?! So sorry for the layout, --- means "sub-board". Maybe create a complete independent section for the market place.

Meaning:
KVR Forum - Market Place
rather than
KVR Forum - Main Forum - Market Place


Then go something like this:

Code: Select all

KVR Forum > Market Place
Buying/Selling Discussion, root folder (feedback thread, user-based discussions, pinned threads, rules, etc)
--- Buying/Selling Software (VSTi/VST, hosts, portable apps - if possible)
--- Buying/Selling Soundware (Samples, Presets, MIDI files, etc)
--- Buying/Selling Hardware (Synths, FX modules, iPad, PC's, etc)
--- Promotions and Sales (vendor/dealer/company notices and announcements, deals like #KVRdeals, pinned thread like "Deals - no gossip")
--- Services by KVR users (users need to be KVR regulars with a minimum post count (say, let's start with 100), being a trusted member, and need to unveil some data about them (links in sig, corporate connection, that kind of thing).
--- User releases (CD's, DLC, books, videos, gadgets, etc - ideally no company release)

Tags for thread creation in that section:
Want to Buy (WTB), Want to Sell/For Sale (FS), For Trade (FT), For sale or trade (SorT), offering service (offering), looking for service (looking for), groupbuy (GroupBuy or GB-deal), free release (Freebie)

And if a thread is non relevant anymore:
Sale ended (sold or ended), deal has ended (deal ended) or just simply "stopped" (stopped, withdrawn)


Deals and finished sales should at least remain one week post ending, for others to "inspire" themselves (this was requested several times in other threads). PHPbb could be setup to automatically truncate such threads with these tags after a certain while (no moderator needed).

GroupBuy's, deals and Freebie's must(!) have an indication how long this offer is available. Like "ends DD/MM/YYYY" or "free until further notice". Doesn't PHPbb have a subtitle function for the thread?


I am also for having at least 50-100 posts until you can post ANYTHING in the marketplace. Eventually higher for offering services.
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koalaboy
KVRAF
1810 posts since 18 Mar, 2006 from Plymouth, UK

Re: Market Place Organisation

Post Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:17 am

It would also be nice if there were some guidelines for the Subject format, and moderation to try and keep them in line. Edit: Maybe as above ^^^^

Ideally, this would include a rough idea of location and/or shipping region(s).

Along with the other ideas (especially separating WTB from For Sale), it would be much better to skim over for items you're interested in and that are applicable.

VitaminD
Pick Me Pick me!
8741 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from a state of confusion

Re: Market Place Organisation

Post Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:54 pm

48 hours is way too excessive for bumps

Please consider 24 hours per bump.

Otherwise, you are likely to see teams of people bumping other people's stuff because 48 hours means you're item is 2 or 3 pages back.


I would also like to see mandatory country of the seller included in the offered items. Shipping, tax, and foreign currency conversions add in cost. Would be further welcome if we could filter based on origin country.

Oh and completely ban PP gift too is my vote (if there was a vote). Anyone caught requesting or offering PP gift should get their marketplace access revoked.
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Compyfox
KVRAF
14325 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany

Re: Market Place Organisation

Post Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:48 pm

Shipping is complicated for Germany. There are three "Zones" which ask for even more diferent prices. Though I do agree that at least the "source" country should be given, also in which way the package is shipped (in my case, it would be DHL) if international shipping (hardware, boxed stuff) is to be considered.

Same with TAX. This is something that the seller can not know, as it's a problem of the buyer.
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samsam
KVRAF
2521 posts since 9 Dec, 2008

Re: Market Place Organisation

Post Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:53 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:Buying/Selling Discussion : main parent (feedback thread, user-based discussions etc)
* Buying/Selling Plugins : sub-forum (as it says)
* Buying/Selling Other Software : sub-forum (as it says)
* Buying/Selling Samples and Presets : sub-forum (as it says)
* Buying/Selling Hardware : sub-forum (as it says)
* Promotions and Sales : sub-forum (vendor/dealer/company notices and announcements)

Oh, and for gawd's sake please make it mandatory that people who are working for companies and therefore involved in promoting them must must admit that in some way when posting about products they're involved with, either in the text body, or permanently have that indicated in their sig, avatar, or whatever.
The MP front page currently has 1 hybrid hardware/software device - why would we need a separate subforum for hardware?

Why a separate subforum for non-plug software? What's the problem with having DAWs and reverbs in the same section?

Why do I, as a customer, want to make a distinction between software offered by individuals (i.e. 'buy Massive cheaper than full price') and a dev's sale (i.e. 'buy Massive cheaper than full price")?

All seems like a waste of effort to me. Unless this is Ben's desire to make KVR more like GearSlutz (heaven help us...)


edit: as for others' suggestions - too much policing.
Last edited by samsam on Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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masterhiggins
KVRAF
2053 posts since 31 Dec, 2004 from People's Republic of Minnesota

Re: Market Place Organisation

Post Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:25 pm

I'd like KVR to consider locking sales threads down to only the OP and the mods. Too many threads get derailed by "oh it's cheaper here" replies. If people want to get a better deal on something they should do their own research. It seriously takes 5 seconds to google prices.

-Sam

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