customer support forum request (2nd) Ben plz read

Any problems with the site? How can we improve KVR?
User avatar
Hink
Rad Grandad
28884 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Post Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:14 am

IMO this will benefit everyone, I'm not talking about a forum to complain about software problems. I think we need a way to rate customer service, a one place stop where people can read just about support issues and support issues only. That way a consumer can be more educated with their purchases and puts pressure on the companies to support their products. I think echopark says it all with "So for me it's a problem to buy a software when I can't get support."

When I posted on here about Presonus ignoring me the way they did I got several calls in one day, plus emails and a pm from a member here who is part of Presonus. The thread generated hundreds of views in one day. (I also got my unit fixed for free even though the warranty had long expired. It works.

I realize this would have to be strictly moderated to make sure issues are real and not just blowing off steam. I'm disabled, I'm home all the time, I have the time, I think I'm a fair minded person and I totally volunteer for the job and am confident I can handle it with no bias at all. Call it a liaison forum, whatever...but imagine how it would be if some of these bigger companies started coming around and treated customers like days of yore when companies cared about there customers. It seems to me it would be good for Receptor as well.

I know there is KvR wiki, I know we have support forums, I know we can write reviews but I think all of those present the issue of having to search for comments on customer service. Naturally it will take time to get rolling but a record of how well each company handles issues. A rating system that includes how quickly customer service responds, how often the issue is resolved, how often the customer gets responses, how many requests have to be sent before the company responds will all help potential customers. We can get the companies to be accountable to the customers.

It's a tall order but I'm willing to make a serious commitment to this, people should know going in what to expect.

Sorry I posted this twice basically today, I am very passionate about this issue. I think good customer service makes and breaks companies.
Albert Einstein may have been a genius but his brother Frank was a monster

User avatar
Hink
Rad Grandad
28884 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Post Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:34 am

not keep beating tis to death, but KvR is huge...every audio company knows this forum. Imagine if the day came that "KvR Customer Service Rating" was a selling point for software. Imagine the traffic here, which would benefit the smaller developers as well. I think this is a win/win/win :tu:

Please Ben give this some serious thought :pray:
Albert Einstein may have been a genius but his brother Frank was a monster

User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
48726 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:00 pm

probably best to pm him if you want him to see it in a hurry.

cbanga
KVRist
40 posts since 25 Feb, 2009 from MD

Post Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:33 pm

Let's do it...

DJ_Schoolcraft
KVRist
311 posts since 13 Sep, 2008 from Wandering

Post Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:18 pm

I'm for it!

Vonbrucken
KVRAF
3386 posts since 27 Feb, 2004 from Paris (france)

Post Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:34 am

no because too much warez users pretend to be customers these days ....
Image
Organising a protest march this Friday Schlesische Strasse 28 ,10997 Berlin, Germany

koalaboy
KVRAF
1810 posts since 18 Mar, 2006 from Plymouth, UK

Post Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:24 am

Vonbrucken wrote:no because too much warez users pretend to be customers these days ....
I don't think the intention is to actually answer the problems in the forum - that would still be done between the companies and the customer direct.

It would be more of place to point out a problem, or lack of response from a company/vendor and gauge how many other people are also not getting any response.

It shouldn't turn into a "how do I do this ?", but moderation would ensure that.

It's about giving the 'people' their voice regarding the lack of customer support, and helping them find a path back into speaking to the right people - or ensuring other people don't get 'left' in the same way.

(I think that's the idea - please correct me if I'm wrong, Hink)

Vonbrucken
KVRAF
3386 posts since 27 Feb, 2004 from Paris (france)

Post Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:00 am

koalaboy wrote:
Vonbrucken wrote:no because too much warez users pretend to be customers these days ....
I don't think the intention is to actually answer the problems in the forum - that would still be done between the companies and the customer direct.

It would be more of place to point out a problem, or lack of response from a company/vendor and gauge how many other people are also not getting any response.

It shouldn't turn into a "how do I do this ?", but moderation would ensure that.

It's about giving the 'people' their voice regarding the lack of customer support, and helping them find a path back into speaking to the right people - or ensuring other people don't get 'left' in the same way.

(I think that's the idea - please correct me if I'm wrong, Hink)
In my opinion it is a clear invitation to bash companies credibility , there will be nothing to prevent warez user to whine because their warez software doesn't work and the guy want the developer to fix it ...
It will be also the realm of personal vendetta threads.
At the end of the day it will just bring more drama to the kvr community, because legit customers that have no problems with their software will oppose the original poster accusations, minds will get excited and some will get banned ... :shrug:
Image
Organising a protest march this Friday Schlesische Strasse 28 ,10997 Berlin, Germany

mckenic
KVRAF
2321 posts since 8 Jul, 2002 from Limerick, Ireland

Post Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:23 am

I think its a good idea Hink and you know how highly I regard you as a friend/as a person.

I think you would be up to modding such a place and I think it would be good for companies to be aware that customers can mention issues with support in a place that is not their own forum (and cant be deleted).

The worry for me would be if I were to say 'N.I. gave me sucky support when I had an issue" or "Imageline post very rude to people asking for support" - is that fanboys/friends/whoever would feel they have to defend them. It could degenerate VERY quickly...

[BTW got great support from N.I. and never had to deal with I.L. :hihi: ]

Good idea tho - lets users discuss and inform potential customers on what to expect. We have seen some devs taking their ball home!

Dave

User avatar
Hink
Rad Grandad
28884 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Post Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:10 am

Vonbrucken wrote:
koalaboy wrote:
Vonbrucken wrote:no because too much warez users pretend to be customers these days ....
I don't think the intention is to actually answer the problems in the forum - that would still be done between the companies and the customer direct.

It would be more of place to point out a problem, or lack of response from a company/vendor and gauge how many other people are also not getting any response.

It shouldn't turn into a "how do I do this ?", but moderation would ensure that.

It's about giving the 'people' their voice regarding the lack of customer support, and helping them find a path back into speaking to the right people - or ensuring other people don't get 'left' in the same way.

(I think that's the idea - please correct me if I'm wrong, Hink)
In my opinion it is a clear invitation to bash companies credibility , there will be nothing to prevent warez user to whine because their warez software doesn't work and the guy want the developer to fix it ...
It will be also the realm of personal vendetta threads.
At the end of the day it will just bring more drama to the kvr community, because legit customers that have no problems with their software will oppose the original poster accusations, minds will get excited and some will get banned ... :shrug:
Yes that is exactly the idea koalaboy. Vanrucken, that's why it would have to be heavily moderated, just because you see it as an invitation to bash companies doesn't mean it will be or tolerated. What I'm thinking about would include zero tolerance for any bashing, just the facts. Am I to assume you're one of those who believe it's okay for one support forum from a big company has the screen name RTFM. If you bought something at a store and you went back to ask a question or was returning something because it didn't work for you do you think anyone would accept the employee saying read the f**king manual?

But I do appreciate your input because it does bring up things to address but I don't think it's enough to scrap the idea. :)
Albert Einstein may have been a genius but his brother Frank was a monster

User avatar
Hink
Rad Grandad
28884 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Post Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:11 am

mckenic wrote:I think its a good idea Hink and you know how highly I regard you as a friend/as a person.

I think you would be up to modding such a place and I think it would be good for companies to be aware that customers can mention issues with support in a place that is not their own forum (and cant be deleted).

The worry for me would be if I were to say 'N.I. gave me sucky support when I had an issue" or "Imageline post very rude to people asking for support" - is that fanboys/friends/whoever would feel they have to defend them. It could degenerate VERY quickly...

[BTW got great support from N.I. and never had to deal with I.L. :hihi: ]

Good idea tho - lets users discuss and inform potential customers on what to expect. We have seen some devs taking their ball home!

Dave
Thanks Dave :)
Albert Einstein may have been a genius but his brother Frank was a monster

MaxSynths
KVRAF
4592 posts since 2 Nov, 2006

Post Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:22 am

Yes it's a good Idea. Talking about customer support I think it would be appropriate also to add a rule for who have a support forum on KVR which prohibit the company to delete without any explanation what they consider "negative" threads (this happened several times and it's not a fair game).

Anyway I'm with you Hink ;)
Image

Vonbrucken
KVRAF
3386 posts since 27 Feb, 2004 from Paris (france)

Post Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:25 am

Hink wrote: But I do appreciate your input because it does bring up things to address but I don't think it's enough to scrap the idea. :)
No problem Honk, glad I could help in some ways :) But I really doubt they will make a dedicated forum for this .... :shrug:
Image
Organising a protest march this Friday Schlesische Strasse 28 ,10997 Berlin, Germany

koalaboy
KVRAF
1810 posts since 18 Mar, 2006 from Plymouth, UK

Post Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:27 am

I think it could be very useful.

If posts had to conform to pure factual information posts about 'concrete' examples, and anything emotional or vague was deleted (with serious enough threats to constant offenders) then there'd be no problem.

Something like:
I've recently been trying to get in touch with XXX about their product YYY, that I'm having problems with - does anyone have an alternate address ?
After trying for the past month to reach the technical support of XXX and simply getting automated emails back with no human contact, I've reached the end of my tether - Is it just me, or are other people having problems with XXX ?
Just a quick note to say that I had a problem with XXX, and even though it was a Sunday (and night-time in their timezone), I got a great response within 30 minutes
would be the sort of post I think would be suitable, with replies either helping with useful information, or agreeing/disagreeing with factual experiences of their own.

Topics or replies such as:
XXX sucks monkeys
or
Why can't XXX run their company properly - their product just doesn't work, and although I opsted for help here on KvR, I've had no responses in the last half-hour - I'm not using their crappy mailing list 'cos I hate mailing lists
wouldn't be acceptable. If it's a rant, it's too emotional, and should be put in HPC or something... an informative post could then be made based on the facts after cooling down :wink:

You may want to consider a requirement for thread tagging as well:

"[MyVstCompany] Payment problems with no contact"

Actually, writing that example made me realise that choosing a decent topic subject isn't that easy, to make it useful for future forum browsers.

Anyway, I say go for it (assuming those in power agree) but it should be pulled if it becomes too messy or ends up just being a place to vent. The problem will be knowing if it's helpful, because you don't really want other people to post "Thanks - this helped me", and most often, people don't bother posting when a problem has been solved :?

User avatar
Hink
Rad Grandad
28884 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Post Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:30 pm

Vonbrucken wrote:
Hink wrote: But I do appreciate your input because it does bring up things to address but I don't think it's enough to scrap the idea. :)
No problem Honk, glad I could help in some ways :) But I really doubt they will make a dedicated forum for this .... :shrug:
Honk? :hihi: maybe they wont, but it's worth serious consideration. It is true that being able to hide behind a computer screen makes it easier to ignore customers. In my opinion it really has become apparent that the level of customer service for many large companies as become all but extinct. The pride is gone or if not gone it's got it's hat and keys and is headed out the door.

This isn't just in the music biz but everywhere, back in the day most of the people you dealt with were your neighbors. You had your "guy" for everything and they were part of your community so treating them with respect was never an issue. It was simply a matter of doing the right thing, you can use banks as a great example.

It wasn't until banks got all connected and not only national but international, instead of the bank knowing you as a friend we all just became a number. What happened? Suddenly when people turned to numbers the banking industry became hostile then downright predatory. Instead of your neighbors and friends they didn't care, they would rather screw the customers over. That is a big reason for this economy right?

Part of this globalization is also that there are a lot of people offering the same type of products, often the only real difference is the name on the product. We can see this a lot here in the wonderful world of DAWs. Really it's getting to a point where every company comes out with similar features as each other. This suggests to me that the quality of a product is less in question and to get a leg up on the competition is getting harder. Companies are running out of ways to put themselves in the lead and I see this as all roads pointing to one thing they can improve on...customer service.

As for a forum, my vision would be no flame fests, no bashing, I would expect those with complaints to put the complaints out there respectfully or it may be apparent the problem is them. The rules of the forum can express this and that if it's deemed inappropriate it would get a mod edit and a request they conform to the rules.

As for those who come in to defend the company (that was a very good point for you to bring up), this would be fine as long as it stayed within the rules. Of course that's being idealistic and special attention would have to be paid to this. The solution would be to split the thread and send those who choose to bicker to the appropriate forum as we see mods do now. If it got out of hand from there the thread could be locked without dismissing the original poster's complaint.

I am very passionate about service, I was always a small town boy and it's paiful to watch it slip away. I'm not comfortable with so many having a laugh on their way to the bank at my expense. As of late people rollover and say that's how it is :shrug: But it doesn't have to be.

Also remember hopefully a forum would draw those with positive experiences to tell their tale of happiness. I'm going through this with P-cal, I want to tell everyone I meet "do you know how awesome these guys are?" People like to share good stories too...it would take work but it could work and I've got the time to put into it. :)
Albert Einstein may have been a genius but his brother Frank was a monster

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