It Gets Even f**king Worse!

[meeks]

Not this one...it was pretty legit I thought. If anything it could have been moved to OT. It was about synths, but the original posting has "dissappeared" (afaik) it was not moved.

Granted it has blown out of control but most things do when explainations are not given. All this over some $20 skins for a $300 rompler...it is over the top (the ridiculousness of the aftermath that is). But someone found it neccessary to start deleting and moving posts when ther original post would have simply died.

But enough...vacation over.
Best of luck reFX...I seriously mean that.

[aMUSEd]

What's the problem?

[John Vulich]

I farted.

[saulc12]

I farted.

Oh my god, you did too, I can smell it all the way over here...

Oh no, wait a minute, that ones mine...

sorry

[diverdee]

so which Mod is moving them.
Whenever i've seen Muff or Meffy step in they always take responsibility.
In this case shit seems to have been deleted/moved rather stealthily & somewhat sneakily - some may even say in a somewhat cowardly fashion.
Friend/admirer/lover of Mr Kleps perchance?
Smells.

[1-2-Many]

so which Mod is moving them.
Whenever i've seen Muff or Meffy step in they always take responsibility.
In this case shit seems to have been deleted/moved rather stealthily & somewhat sneakily - some may even say in a somewhat cowardly fashion.
Friend/admirer/lover of Mr Kleps perchance?
Smells.

I have it from good source that it was kevvvv who deleted the NEXUS posts.

Yes, I'm outing him. I've given him ample opportunity to come forward and explain himself, but apparently he feels no explanation was/is needed.

[Sascha Franck]

Well, I actually don't understand a few things either.
From what I *do* understand, the first Nexus thread being locked was partially up to me as well, because after posting a (intended to be mildly funny) pic of me with some rubber dolls on it, there's been a more or less longwinded discussion about what would qualify as pornographic and what wasn't.

And while I still think that the very pic in question isn't pornographic at all, I do sort of agree that usually any such pic and followup discussions don't exactly belong into a discussion which is about software instruments.
I mean, after all, some people might just visit KVR to get informed, and a thread containing around 70-90% OT posts doesn't do the basic KVR intention of being a great source of information any good.
Having said that, even if I can't find any offensive content in the pic I posted, it wasn't exactly appropriate either to post it in that very thread, so my apologies for that.

And fwiw, in case anybody missed it (won't post it directly):
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/bilda/Rubber.jpg

As far as thread deletion without further notice goes: This is censorship at its best and I hate it. BONES' thread about reFX charging money for skins was a legit thread, and as far as I was watching it, nothing over the mark has been posted in there either. It's just been people telling and complaining about a company's actions, a perfectly valid discussion.
If there's been some too offensive posts, a mod should've deleted those individual posts, but again: not without a comment.
The second best thing would've been moving it to HPC, again with an additional explanation of why it has been moved.
Just deleting it without further notice is absolutely inacceptable in my book. There's no possible excuse either.

If you ask me, there's been hundreds of threads being *way* worse, all visible in the "recent threads" list on the right, such as meaningless polls, endless "what is the best..." stuff, usually coming from some newbies which are from then on bombarded with unfair comments.
And yes, I sometimes wish those comments would be moderated.
It has always been sort of difficult for a newbie to get into KVR, but as of lately (and it's not *exactly* lately but happening since quite a while), it has been getting worse.
If you don't like someone asking for "the best tarnce VSTi", why even bother with posting a reply?
I'm not entirely unguilty either. As said, that pic I posted in the Nexus thread was totally uncalled for, especially since I could've known it'd cause a completely OT discussion.
Still, I'm asking you regulars to not jump onto any thread, just to say things such as "oh no, not that best freeware reverb shit again..." (which would even be a mild response) and such. Post a useful link to a thread in which the thing that's been asked for has been covered or other information, otherwise stay out. Please don't tell people they're too stupid to use the search function - which, after all, isn't all *that* brilliant.
This, to me, has pretty much devaluated KVR as a source of help and information.

Still, blinded censorship isn't anything I can get along with either. And in at least one of the recent cases, it looks like that to me.
I *do* know that the mods have a tough job to do, but then, it still doesn't justify some actions.
Move the thread to HPC, delete or edit posts, lock threads, whatever - but tell people *why* you are doing so. That's what we (your fellow KVR regulars that is) deserve.
So far, I really liked KVR as being one of the few forums more or less offering "truly free speech", but in case this will change, I'm the first to leave.
Again, don't get me wrong, I am asking all of us regulars a similar thing: Try to stay civilized. Personally, I will at least try to.

Best
Sascha

[jens]

In this case shit seems to have been deleted/moved rather stealthily & somewhat sneakily - some may even say in a somewhat cowardly fashion.
Friend/admirer/lover of Mr Kleps perchance?
Smells.

Yes, kev is indeed an admirer of Michael Kleps. He never made a secret of it. I think you are spot on.

I also think Kev's behaviour is lacking loyality towards Ben and KVR here.

[diverdee]

I have it from good source that it was kevvvv who deleted the NEXUS posts.

Yes, I'm outing him. I've given him ample opportunity to come forward and explain himself, but apparently he feels no explanation was/is needed.

Kev with the many v's?
Hmmmm... he has been a pretty consistent defender of REfx & Mr. Kleps - so I may have hit the nail pretty squarely on the head I reckon.
A mod being somewhat less thatn objective & abusing his mod-ness?
& doing it surreptitiously also as it would be pretty bloody obvious if he signed his name to the actions & can't give any real substantive reasons for the deletions etc.
Nice, real nice.

[saulc12]

And fwiw, in case anybody missed it (won't post it directly):
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/bilda/Rubber.jpg

Thanks for posting a link, I did miss it...

[aMUSEd]

On the question of moderation I think the best example of a well moderated and mature forum is Internet Infidels. There is space there for discussion of a wide range of topics - many of which (religion, politics etc) can become inflamed but the moderation always takes the form of individual intervention to remind people or groups of people to mind their language or not make unfounded accusations (e.g. ad hominim attacks in particular are discouraged - people are encouraged to challenge someone over a specific point but not make unfounded or personal accusations - even such as calling another a troll or liar) and they will edit language in threads and say why and also split thread rather than deleting them when they go off the rails so discussions can stay focussed. There is also a seperate space for humourous and risque threads and even a space for feedback to moderators and people can make complaints if they feel a mod has got out of hand or acted in an unjustified way. Despite the potential poweder keg of subject matter threads rarely get out of line because of this approach - speech is much freer there even that KVR but at the same time posters are actively encouraged to take responsibility for their posts.

Forum rules:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=79154

Forums

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/index.php?

[jens]

A mod being somewhat less thatn objective & abusing his mod-ness?
& doing it surreptitiously also as it would be pretty bloody obvious if he signed his name to the actions & can't give any real substantive reasons for the deletions etc.
Nice, real nice.

Again you're spot on!

[BONES]

What f**king speculation? Legitimate threads have been removed or moved to a less appropriate forum without explanation. If you're happy that this is acceptable then you really shouldn't be a mod. Its nothing but censorship.

moving a thread is censorship?

still, i didn't move it, and i never said i was happy about it

that's the speculation i'm talking about, duh

can't wait for more assumptions

What assumptions? Where did I so much as insinuate that you had anything to do with it? You came in all defensive as though anything said against a mod is being said against you. I have no idea who deleted my thread, I was just surprised that you would appear to defend the position. And if you don't think moving a thread to somewhere that people interested in the topic are not likely to look for it is censorship, you need to think a little deeper about it.

And no it isn't censorship. By moving threads, no content what-so-ever was covered or made to dissappear. The deleted threads were censored but, but moving threads isn't.

Of course it is. It no longer shows up on the recent posts list so no-one notices it unless they visit the HPC forum. Today is the first time in months, possibly all year, that I have ventured there and I certainly wouldn't think to go there to discuss skins for VST instruments. It may not be total censorship but it's at least the same kind that goes on with film classifications.

[jens]

Of course it is.

yes, there can be no doubt about this.


Whoever says it wasn't didn't think about hard enough.

[The Chase]

Of course it is.

yes, there can be no doubt about this.


Whoever says it wasn't didn't think about hard enough.

either that or different people define everyhting in this subjective reality differently.