Wideboy and FM Sounds

[Chris-S]

Being an old FM fan I tried to do some typical FM sounds with Wideboy.

For the Tubular Bell we need a FM Stack with ratio 3.5.

Each of the 3 Wideboy oscillators can act as a simple FM stack using the "phase dist wave" option.
But we have a big "BUT" here: There is only a fixed set of 60 frequency ratios (wave B pitch).

Ok, so we have to use two oscillators. But what is the correct input slot? XMod? FM? Mod?
And when using Osc-A as input how can we shape it's volume?

Finally I found a very ugly way to achieve this, but I guess there must be a more simple way.

So here is the result:
http://chris-s.bplaced.net/div/wideboy-tubu1.mp3

Chris

[C.Kerry]

Being an old FM fan I tried to do some typical FM sounds with Wideboy.
For the Tubular Bell we need a FM Stack with ratio 3.5.
Each of the 3 Wideboy oscillators can act as a simple FM stack using the "phase dist wave" option.
But we have a big "BUT" here: There is only a fixed set of 60 frequency ratios (wave B pitch).
Ok, so we have to use two oscillators. But what is the correct input slot? XMod? FM? Mod?
And when using Osc-A as input how can we shape it's volume?
Finally I found a very ugly way to achieve this, but I guess there must be a more simple way.
So here is the result:
http://chris-s.bplaced.net/div/wideboy-tubu1.mp3
Chris

You need to know the difference between XMod and FM.
FM is Phase Modulation. XMod is Frequency/Pitch Modulation.
Both produce similar sounds but the most significant difference is that when FM is static the sound returns to the original pitch, whereas with XMod the pitch stays at its last value.

If you want Yamaha style FM then use the FM inputs on OscB/Osc C
This allows you to set the Pitching exactly how you want it - so you can get the *3.5 by adjusting the OscA Pitch and using it to FM Mod Osc B.

You can also cascade the AB FM/XMod into Osc C or use a combination of FM and XMod - that is the benefit of X-Jupitae, you have the option to mix and match.

Controlling the level of OscA is not something i had considered, but it is possible. Use Shaped:EnvA mode and set the bars in the OSC:A window to Zero (very fiddly - sorry!). The Mod now controls the orignal wave to a zero wave *Note +10 Envelope = Wave OFF so the env needs to be inverted.
The FM aspect of X-Jupitae was to generate tones, not to be a DX7 emulation.

I created a FM_BASE preset for WideBoy where all the 'Osc Shape' windows are Zero'd - saves you the time
https://www.dropbox.com/s/irc0i5n7px2x3 ... e.fxp?dl=0
Just remember that with this Osc Mode MOD:+10 is the 'Shaped' form. So in this preset +10 in the Envelope = Zero Level Wave

[Chris-S]

And when using Osc-A as input how can we shape it's volume?
Finally I found a very ugly way to achieve this,

Ok, my method was to mix a sin with an inverted sin.
Wave A = sin, Wave B = inverted sin (ramp with only one harmonic), mode = Dual Mix.

[C.Kerry]

And when using Osc-A as input how can we shape it's volume?
Finally I found a very ugly way to achieve this,

Ok, my method was to mix a sin with an inverted sin.
Wave A = sin, Wave B = inverted sin (ramp with only one harmonic), mode = Dual Mix.

With that method it's best to use Saw and Ramp set to 1 Harmonic, then the Sine levels match. With this method though the Sine output is lower than my method and the Env needs to be +5 to zero the output.

But this just proves that there are many ways to acheive the same goal

[Chris-S]

Actually that's what I did in the Tub patch.

Thank's for you FM base patch, will take a look on this.
For the Tub Bell I did NOT use the FM input, but the Modulator (phase) input.

[C.Kerry]

Actually that's what I did in the Tub patch.

Thank's for you FM base patch, will take a look on this.
For the Tub Bell I did NOT use the FM input, but the Modulator (phase) input.

That's ok with the 'Single' Osc Mode because MOD controls PHASE in that mode.
But if you want to do DX style A>B>C FM then use my FM_BASE patch and use the FM inputs. The MOD inputs will control FM Level.
With my FM_BASE Patch you can build some good DX/FM algos A*B, A*B + A*C, A*B*C, A*B + A*B*C there maybe more, and of course you can combine FM with a standard Osc C wave or Phase Distortion on C etc.

[Chris-S]

Controlling the level of OscA is not something i had considered, but it is possible. Use Shaped:EnvA mode and set the bars in the OSC:A window to Zero (very fiddly - sorry!). The Mod now controls the orignal wave to a zero wave *Note +10 Envelope = Wave OFF so the env needs to be inverted.

Is there also a way for Flexoid to get an enveloped output for Osc A or B?
(Which then can be used as FM modulation of Osc C).

[C.Kerry]

Controlling the level of OscA is not something i had considered, but it is possible. Use Shaped:EnvA mode and set the bars in the OSC:A window to Zero (very fiddly - sorry!). The Mod now controls the orignal wave to a zero wave *Note +10 Envelope = Wave OFF so the env needs to be inverted.

Is there also a way for Flexoid to get an enveloped output for Osc A or B?
(Which then can be used as FM modulation of Osc C).

I don't think there is on Flexoid, the only way we got it to work on WideBoy was by exploiting some of the Multi-Mode features of the Flexi-Osc.
OSC A, OSC B of Flexoid are totally different types of oscillators. You can automate the individual levels of Osc B, but not via Envelopes.

But wideBoy and Flexoid share the same structure, so you can just use WideBoy to get the same 'sound' and FX etc.

This highlights the main difference between the two; WideBoy is more suited to lead sounds, whereas Flexoid is better for pads because of its extended oscillator voices.