DIY specific midi controller: Im totally lost can anyone help?
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 91 posts since 18 Apr, 2015
(I speak french so my english may seem weird, and I dont have much knowlegde in electronics)
(I'm refering alot to this article: https://ask.audio/articles/how-to-build ... ing-teensy)
Hi,
I have specific needs for my workflow in reaper; before ordering anything, can anyone tell me if my 'plan' is gonna work, and what to buy? (I own Zero SLMkII and APC40, but they both take too much place on my desktop, and I tend to always use about 6 or 8 controls; compact or mini alternatives look so crappy and cheaply built!)
========================
1) I need 2 endless encoders (infinite rotation); I want to have a great feeling while Im using my midi controller (so no cheap plastic knobs)
1rst knob - Main knob (reaper cc="control last touched parameters”)
2nd - scroll arrangement horz.
a) I was wondering: do you think I could use these knobs: https://www.amazon.ca/Eastar-Quality-Al ... op?ie=UTF8
with these 360 potentiometers: https://www.amazon.ca/Stkertools-Positi ... entiometer
b) Will the 360 potentiometer work with Teensy?
========================
2) I need at least 6 faders (busses' volume)
I was considering these sliders:
https://www.amazon.ca/Stkertools-Electr ... entiometer
But the shipping cost seems high (15$/6); any other suggestions?
=========================
3) For other knobs (if I want to add more), I would go with these:
https://www.amazon.ca/Single-Linear-Tap ... ter+linear
Will they work with Arduino or Teensy?
(maybe 3-4 trigger switches would also be interesting (start, pause, etc) if you have suggestion; an on/off switch? https://www.amazon.ca/250V-Non-locking- ... gle+switch)
=====================
4) Now the hardest part for me; I read some DIY tutorial and videos, but now Im totally confused on what to use and how to make it work (hardware and software).
So I guess I need:
1- Teensy: https://www.amazon.ca/USB-development-b ... teensy+3.1
or maybe this one? : https://www.amazon.ca/Kuman-Board-ATmeg ... ga328p+MCU
2- I guess some boards like these (1-2 for faders, one for knobs, etc.?)?: https://www.amazon.ca/SODIAL-Solderless ... breadboard
....or this? (I dont wan't to solder if I dont need to)
https://www.amazon.ca/SODIAL-Prototype- ... Stripboard
........and this??
https://www.amazon.ca/SODIAL-Sockets-Ad ... +IC+socket
3- For the casing what would be the easiest options (wood/metal carving seems hard)?
4- Internal wires which one exactly? (there seem to have alot of differences from one another)
external wire other than usb?
5- ………......... anything else?! (haha! .. Im totally lost on that part)
==========
Thanks a lot!
(I'm refering alot to this article: https://ask.audio/articles/how-to-build ... ing-teensy)
Hi,
I have specific needs for my workflow in reaper; before ordering anything, can anyone tell me if my 'plan' is gonna work, and what to buy? (I own Zero SLMkII and APC40, but they both take too much place on my desktop, and I tend to always use about 6 or 8 controls; compact or mini alternatives look so crappy and cheaply built!)
========================
1) I need 2 endless encoders (infinite rotation); I want to have a great feeling while Im using my midi controller (so no cheap plastic knobs)
1rst knob - Main knob (reaper cc="control last touched parameters”)
2nd - scroll arrangement horz.
a) I was wondering: do you think I could use these knobs: https://www.amazon.ca/Eastar-Quality-Al ... op?ie=UTF8
with these 360 potentiometers: https://www.amazon.ca/Stkertools-Positi ... entiometer
b) Will the 360 potentiometer work with Teensy?
========================
2) I need at least 6 faders (busses' volume)
I was considering these sliders:
https://www.amazon.ca/Stkertools-Electr ... entiometer
But the shipping cost seems high (15$/6); any other suggestions?
=========================
3) For other knobs (if I want to add more), I would go with these:
https://www.amazon.ca/Single-Linear-Tap ... ter+linear
Will they work with Arduino or Teensy?
(maybe 3-4 trigger switches would also be interesting (start, pause, etc) if you have suggestion; an on/off switch? https://www.amazon.ca/250V-Non-locking- ... gle+switch)
=====================
4) Now the hardest part for me; I read some DIY tutorial and videos, but now Im totally confused on what to use and how to make it work (hardware and software).
So I guess I need:
1- Teensy: https://www.amazon.ca/USB-development-b ... teensy+3.1
or maybe this one? : https://www.amazon.ca/Kuman-Board-ATmeg ... ga328p+MCU
2- I guess some boards like these (1-2 for faders, one for knobs, etc.?)?: https://www.amazon.ca/SODIAL-Solderless ... breadboard
....or this? (I dont wan't to solder if I dont need to)
https://www.amazon.ca/SODIAL-Prototype- ... Stripboard
........and this??
https://www.amazon.ca/SODIAL-Sockets-Ad ... +IC+socket
3- For the casing what would be the easiest options (wood/metal carving seems hard)?
4- Internal wires which one exactly? (there seem to have alot of differences from one another)
external wire other than usb?
5- ………......... anything else?! (haha! .. Im totally lost on that part)
==========
Thanks a lot!
Last edited by astramistil on Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- Beware the Quoth
- 33159 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
If they behave like standard rotary encoders, I dont see why not. There's no manufacturer there, so no datasheet, so without that its a bit hard to be absolute, but I dont see why not.astramistil wrote:========================
1) I need 2 endless encoders (infinite rotation); I want to have a great feeling while Im using my midi controller (so no cheap plastic knobs)
b) Will the 360 potentiometer work with Teensy?
However, they're pretty low-resolution encoders. Ive got some similar-ish ones, and while they'd be fine for a cheap-and-cheerful arduino project, they're pretty much the lowest end of encoders possible. Ive got a nice 200-turn encoder I picked up for about £12 and its vastly superior.
========================
Again, that's not that high. A high-quality fader, such as you'd find on a mixing desk could cost you two or three times that for one.2) I need at least 6 faders (busses' volume)
I was considering these sliders:
https://www.amazon.ca/Stkertools-Electr ... entiometer
But the cost with shipping seems high (15$/6); any other suggestions?
Anyways, if you're building them into an enclosure, you probably dont need them on the PCB like that.
=========================
Yup.3) For other knobs (if I want to add more), I would go with these:
https://www.amazon.ca/Single-Linear-Tap ... ter+linear
Will they work with Arduino or Teensy?
They'd work too.(maybe 3-4 trigger switches would also be interesting (start, pause, etc) if you have suggestion; an on/off switch? https://www.amazon.ca/250V-Non-locking- ... gle+switch)
=====================
In that case dont start with this kind of project. Start much smaller, and go through the appropriate tutorials carefully, all the way from blinking an LED to reading pots and debouncing switches etc etc.4) Now the hardest part for me; I read some DIY tutorial and videos, but now Im totally confused on what to use and how to make it work (hardware and software).
You will not be able to scale up unless you understand the basics.
Well one's an Arduino and one's a Teensy, so they're not direct replacements although they're fairly similar in nature.So I guess I need:
1- Teensy: https://www.amazon.ca/USB-development-b ... teensy+3.1
or maybe this one? : https://www.amazon.ca/Kuman-Board-ATmeg ... ga328p+MCU
I havent added it up, but I suspect you have too many 'parts' there for a Teensy to handle. There's only so many sensors (switches, potentiometers, encoders etc) one of these controllers can be connected to at a time without additional electronics.
Again, starting from the basics will help you understand why, and how to get around that.
You wont need to solder while you're prototyping, but in my opinion a breadboard is not up to the job of 'real-world' use.....or this? (I dont wan't to solder if I dont need to)
You'll get plastic project boxes, but considering you want to fit faders, which need long accurate slots, maybe find somewhere that can do cheap lasercutting of wood or acrylic.3- For the casing what would be the easiest options (wood/metal carving seems hard)?
Not sure what you mean here, sorry.4- Internal wire which one exactly? (there seem to have alot of differences from one another)
external wire other than usb?
Walk, dont run. Your project is a bit complex for someone starting from scratch.5- ………......... anything else?! (haha! .. Im totally lost on that part)
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
- Beware the Quoth
- 33159 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Teensy 'getting started' page
https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/first_use.html
Arduino tutorials
https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/HomePage
https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/first_use.html
Arduino tutorials
https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/HomePage
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
- KVRist
- 137 posts since 3 Aug, 2016 from Germany, Munich
I'm currently working on a similar project and I have two little suggestions.
If your microcontroller is running out of inputs, there are I/O-expanders you can use like the MAX7312. This one provides you with 16 additional pins and can trigger an interrupt. It only needs two pins of your microcontroller for communication. Here I agree with whyterabbyt that you need to learn a lot before being able to build something like that. Including some communication protocols like TWI/I2C which you need for the the MAX232.
Regarding your question for external wiring: I suggest that you don't use USB, but a MIDI-Port. This way you can use your device with every DAW without problems. But this would be the second communication protocol you need to understand, which is UART/RS232. But I think, it is way easier than USB.
If your microcontroller is running out of inputs, there are I/O-expanders you can use like the MAX7312. This one provides you with 16 additional pins and can trigger an interrupt. It only needs two pins of your microcontroller for communication. Here I agree with whyterabbyt that you need to learn a lot before being able to build something like that. Including some communication protocols like TWI/I2C which you need for the the MAX232.
Regarding your question for external wiring: I suggest that you don't use USB, but a MIDI-Port. This way you can use your device with every DAW without problems. But this would be the second communication protocol you need to understand, which is UART/RS232. But I think, it is way easier than USB.
- Beware the Quoth
- 33159 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
If he goes down the Teensy route, its fairly easy to make it a class compliant MIDI-USB device, so I assume that's why the original project he referenced used one egvegaron wrote:Regarding your question for external wiring: I suggest that you don't use USB, but a MIDI-Port. This way you can use your device with every DAW without problems. But this would be the second communication protocol you need to understand, which is UART/RS232. But I think, it is way easier than USB.
https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/td_midi.html
(in fact this page also gives a solution for multiple devices on one pin, using 74xx series multiplexers)
The USB-Midi hack for genuine Arduinos with a second Atmel chip doing the USB handling would also be a possibility (see Soulsby for some info)
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 91 posts since 18 Apr, 2015
Thanks alot guys; great tips!
But the learning curve now seems overwhelming; I initially thought it would be a 'plug this in that' type of project
And the more I read on it + your tips, Im afraid it will take more like 4months instead of 2 weeks (and more $ if I have to buy a startup kit to learn the basics etc.)
Well as an eventual side project I guess it can be fun so if you have any other tips don't hesitate to share them with me!
(whyterabbyt: which better quality 360 potentiometers would you suggest? I think I'll try, once the basics learned, to make work just one knob with teensy, which could be all I need in fact (CC "assign to last touched parameter"); and do you think this knob would work? I want a 'grippy' knob: https://www.amazon.ca/Eastar-Quality-Al ... op?ie=UTF8
Again thx for your time!)
But the learning curve now seems overwhelming; I initially thought it would be a 'plug this in that' type of project
And the more I read on it + your tips, Im afraid it will take more like 4months instead of 2 weeks (and more $ if I have to buy a startup kit to learn the basics etc.)
Well as an eventual side project I guess it can be fun so if you have any other tips don't hesitate to share them with me!
(whyterabbyt: which better quality 360 potentiometers would you suggest? I think I'll try, once the basics learned, to make work just one knob with teensy, which could be all I need in fact (CC "assign to last touched parameter"); and do you think this knob would work? I want a 'grippy' knob: https://www.amazon.ca/Eastar-Quality-Al ... op?ie=UTF8
Again thx for your time!)
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 91 posts since 18 Apr, 2015
I was wondering, do you think I can get somewhere with this kit? I mean, once I tried the basic stuff/tutorials, do you think I can start my midi controller with parts from this kit?
Then I guess I would have to buy only specific things like faders/sliders, casing etc.
Am I too optimist?
https://www.amazon.ca/Adeept-Starter-Br ... tarter+kit
Then I guess I would have to buy only specific things like faders/sliders, casing etc.
Am I too optimist?
https://www.amazon.ca/Adeept-Starter-Br ... tarter+kit
Last edited by astramistil on Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Beware the Quoth
- 33159 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
I think once your past the first part of the curve you'll get a feel for things and it'll seem less overwhelming. Ive seen plenty of students who've never done any programming or electronics in their life cope with it and produce fairly complex devices; you just need to get your head round the basic concepts, and get used to how to break more complex things down into easy, simple stages that you can get working and test independently.astramistil wrote:But the learning curve now seems overwhelming; I initially thought it would be a 'plug this in that' type of project
And the more I read on it + your tips, Im afraid it will take more like 4months instead of 2 weeks (and more $ if I have to buy a startup kit to learn the basics etc.)
This is the high resolution encoder Ive got.astramistil wrote:(whyterabbyt: which better quality 360 potentiometers would you suggest? I think I'll try, once the basics learned, to make work just one knob with teensy, which could be all I need in fact (CC "assign to last touched parameter"); and do you think this knob would work? I want a 'grippy' knob: https://www.amazon.ca/Eastar-Quality-Al ... op?ie=UTF8
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1
Not sure about those knobs; always go by the shaft diameter to know if something will fit.
Yeah, a kit of parts like that makes a pretty good starting point. The one thing I'd say to remember is that the cheaper Arduino clones sometimes need a slightly different device driver from 'proper' Arduinos, so you may need to track them down and install them separately from the Arduino programming software and sometimes the manufacturers' code and schematics for those kits can have typos and errors, so consider the Arduino tutorials and examples to be the 'proper' version.astramistil wrote:I was wondering, do you think I can get somewhere with this kit? I mean, once I tried the basic stuff/tutorials, do you think I can start my midi controller my parts from this kit?
Then I guess I would have to buy only specific things like faders/sliders, casing etc.
Am I too optimist?
https://www.amazon.ca/Adeept-Starter-Br ... tarter+kit
There's a few things I always tell people who're not used to this stuff.
(1) Short-circuits can damage or kill components including your Arduino, so make sure you dont cross wires, put stuff down on anything metal etc etc ;
(2) keep your wire colours consistent (keep to red for power, black for ground, other colours for sensors etc); makes it much easier to follow what connections do what.
(3) if you're using premade jumper wires (as per that kit) on a breadboard then you quite quickly wind up with a few wires 'arching' around the breadboard or to the Arduino board (because the wires tend to be long) .When its crowded, it gets quite easy to accidently dislodge them and break connections, so keep an eye on that especially if you move things around (some cheaper breadboards can be slightly looser and not grab the wire ends as much either, so that wont help.)
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 91 posts since 18 Apr, 2015
I think I'll try something basic from this tutorial:
http://djtechtools.com/2015/08/25/how-t ... ontroller/
to make only one knob works.
1) From what I understand, it should work if I buy only those parts:
2) do I need the "Teensy to USB Adapter/Mount" or I can use only the "micro usb to usb cable" and the Tweensy?
3) will the encoder work with Tweensy?
4) Is the casing large and high enough? (I know you told me to not use pre-made wires otherwise end up with clusters, but if its only for one knob I guess this case should be ok?)
If it works, I'll go for better and more potentiometer.
Then for the software part, I guess I can start from what the guy coded, and then work my way around with tutorial and friend that I know that often code.
Am I missing something, or being too optimistic?
http://djtechtools.com/2015/08/25/how-t ... ontroller/
to make only one knob works.
1) From what I understand, it should work if I buy only those parts:
2) do I need the "Teensy to USB Adapter/Mount" or I can use only the "micro usb to usb cable" and the Tweensy?
3) will the encoder work with Tweensy?
4) Is the casing large and high enough? (I know you told me to not use pre-made wires otherwise end up with clusters, but if its only for one knob I guess this case should be ok?)
If it works, I'll go for better and more potentiometer.
Then for the software part, I guess I can start from what the guy coded, and then work my way around with tutorial and friend that I know that often code.
Am I missing something, or being too optimistic?
- KVRAF
- 9787 posts since 18 Aug, 2007 from NYC
Sorry for piggy-backing this conversation, but I'm also in the same spot of looking to start with some basics (having only done some basic work with gameboy mods).
Is there a recommendation on a breadboard? The reviews are all over the place for some.
I'd eventually like to build my CME UF80 into a desk without the built-in encoder and faders that I don't like to use. I wouldn't mind repurposing those faders into a separate standalone controller if possible. Different thread for a different time, but comes from the same need of having a controller fit better to my space and needs. Will be a fun project that I hope to complete before there a littles ones in my future.
Is there a recommendation on a breadboard? The reviews are all over the place for some.
I'd eventually like to build my CME UF80 into a desk without the built-in encoder and faders that I don't like to use. I wouldn't mind repurposing those faders into a separate standalone controller if possible. Different thread for a different time, but comes from the same need of having a controller fit better to my space and needs. Will be a fun project that I hope to complete before there a littles ones in my future.
- Beware the Quoth
- 33159 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
[/quote]astramistil wrote:I think I'll try something basic from this tutorial:
http://djtechtools.com/2015/08/25/how-t ... ontroller/
to make only one knob works.
1) From what I understand, it should work if I buy only those parts:
2) do I need the "Teensy to USB Adapter/Mount" or I can use only the "micro usb to usb cable" and the Tweensy?
You mean an adaptor like this?
https://www.pjrc.com/store/cable_usb_panel_micro.html
Shouldnt need it.
Unless it works very oddly, and there's no documentation, then yeah. If its been aimed at Arduino use, cant see why there'd be any issues.3) will the encoder work with Tweensy?
Cant tell, Im afraid. I'd get that last, after the thing is built so you know the final dimensions.4) Is the casing large and high enough?
Hmmm. The teensy has no headers so you'll have to do some soldering I think, whether that's dupont headers or bare wires or whatever.(I know you told me to not use pre-made wires otherwise end up with clusters, but if its only for one knob I guess this case should be ok?)
And the encoder looks like it has a female header, so if thats true then for your M/F jumpers to work, it'll need to be header pins on the Teensy.
Or alternately with M/M jumpers, you'd solder one end directly to the Teensy and plug in to the encoder.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 91 posts since 18 Apr, 2015
Again, thanks alot I think I'm going somewhere
I agree that I should wait for final dimension concerning the project box. And I'll ask a friend for soldering.
So before I order anything, just to be sure:
1) This should be enough to make work one knob in Reaper from the hardware perspective:
2) and here's the knob specification concerning which jumper to use: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01HIA ... BRGU&psc=1
3) To make it work in Reaper from the software perspective, implementation should be easy and straighforward (I mean, I can look at any tutorial concerning the subject and wont encounter major issues)
4) Extra: Would it be alot harder to make it wireless? http://www.adeept.com/index.php?con=ind ... duct&id=46
do I have only to solder it to tweensy, then simply find the code on internet (or maybe there are templates in arduino software)
Or the controller would not have enough power to work properly, and what if I want add 8 sliders eventually in term of power?
I agree that I should wait for final dimension concerning the project box. And I'll ask a friend for soldering.
So before I order anything, just to be sure:
1) This should be enough to make work one knob in Reaper from the hardware perspective:
2) and here's the knob specification concerning which jumper to use: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01HIA ... BRGU&psc=1
3) To make it work in Reaper from the software perspective, implementation should be easy and straighforward (I mean, I can look at any tutorial concerning the subject and wont encounter major issues)
4) Extra: Would it be alot harder to make it wireless? http://www.adeept.com/index.php?con=ind ... duct&id=46
do I have only to solder it to tweensy, then simply find the code on internet (or maybe there are templates in arduino software)
Or the controller would not have enough power to work properly, and what if I want add 8 sliders eventually in term of power?
- Beware the Quoth
- 33159 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Damn, now that I can see the part from multiple angles, it looks like its actually got pins on the header. Sorry.
Wireless will definitely be significantly harder
power wont be an issue, sliders are passive so they dont use any.
Wireless will definitely be significantly harder
power wont be an issue, sliders are passive so they dont use any.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 91 posts since 18 Apr, 2015
so I can officially ''procede to checkout'' and everything should work (from the hardware perspective) fine?
(sorry to insist but I dont want to waste 40+$ and end up being disappointed)
what would you suggest otherwise for the 4 parts that would make everything work fine?
(sorry to insist but I dont want to waste 40+$ and end up being disappointed)
what would you suggest otherwise for the 4 parts that would make everything work fine?