BigTick

TabSel · Post by **TabSel** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:57 am

may I ask another technical question?

For example Absynth. After a fresh install of Zen, "Absynth" is available in the settings.

I do NOT activate this Absynth, instead, I drag my "Absynth 5 Stereo (Automap).dll" onto Zen, which is my x64 "Absynth 5 Stereo.dll" automapped to "Absynth 5 Stereo (Automap).dll", which then is jBridged to x32. It shows as "[jBridge]Absynth 5" in the plugin tab, I double click it and rename it to "Absynth 5".

Then, I click on settings. I still see "Absynth", but not the newly added "Absynth 5". (Bug? "Absynth 5" will be displayed under "Absynth" in the settings after a Zen restart)

Zen won't download presets for "this Absynth".

Now, I close Zen, and reopen it. Zen shows "Absynth" still not activated in the settings, and "Absynth 5" activated. Zen still won't download presets for "Absynth 5".

When I activate "Absynth" in the settings, Zen downloads presets.

Now, I rename "Absynth 5" to "Absynth". Zen shows two "Absynth" in the settings. (Bug? After a Zen restart, Zen only shows ONE Absynth, with a question mark in the preset counter field to the right. When I rename "my" Absynth back to "Absynth 5", Zen only shows "Absynth 5" in the settings. After a restart, Zen again shows both "Absynth" and "Absynth 5" in the settings)

Considering preset download behaviour: When I add a currently unsupported plugin and add presets locally for this preset, and afterwards, you support this plugin and offer presets in the db for it for downloading, I will have to live with TWO equally named plugins, my locally created presets, and the global db presets for the then supported plugin, right?

Couldn't this be changed somehow? The presets merged, or Zen checking db presets for manually added plugins that exist in the Zen db? (same plugin ID)

Big Tick · Post by **Big Tick** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:12 am

Zen identifies plugins by their Vst FXID, which is supposed to be a unique, 4 characters ID. So you can perfectly have 2 plugins named "Absynth", as long as their FXID are different, Zen will be perfectly happy.

Similarly, presets (internally in Zen, but also in any fxp file you will find) identify the plugin they belong to using the FXID.

I don't know how Automap or Jbridge work, but if they change the FXID in any way, then there is no way Zen can know that *its* Absynth presets can be loaded in *your* automaped/jbridged Absynth.

Considering preset download behaviour: When I add a currently unsupported plugin and add presets locally for this preset, and afterwards, you support this plugin and offer presets in the db for it for downloading, I will have to live with TWO equally named plugins, my locally created presets, and the global db presets for the then supported plugin, right?

Couldn't this be changed somehow? The presets merged, or Zen checking db presets for manually added plugins that exist in the Zen db? (same plugin ID)

This is exactly how it works. If you have added a plugin locally, and this plugin later becomes supported as a public plugin, then your local plugin disappears from the list, is replaced by the public one, and all your presets are automatically remapped to the public plugin. So you don't have to deal with duplicated plugins.

In addition, when Zen begins downloading public presets for the new plugin, if it finds duplicates with some of your local presets, the local presets are removed and replaced by the public ones. Any tags you have set for these local presets are kept, so the only difference for you is that the preset color changes from green to grey.

TabSel · Post by **TabSel** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:22 am

Thank you so much!

As Automap and jbridge are wrappers, they Pass along any dll Call, so they won't and should Not Change the fxid.

Is there a Way for me to check the fxids of plugs against the db plug fxids?

Seems Strange to me that "my" Absynth may have a different fxid than yours... I will check the Same procedure with the unwrapped Absynth 5 stereo.dll...

TabSel · Post by **TabSel** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:29 am

did a fresh install of Zen, added the original unwrapped x32 "Absynth 5 Stereo.dll" and it was exactly the same thing as with the automap/jbridged dll... two different fxids... maybe different versions? Absynth 4 in your db, Absynth 5 here...?

I'll check with another plugin...

Big Tick · Post by **Big Tick** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:38 am

Nah Zen uses Absynth5. I know there are 2 different ABsynths: the stereo version, and the 8 outs version. Zen uses the one with FXID 'Clm8'.

TabSel · Post by **TabSel** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:40 am

hmmm... the same with x32 "FM8.dll", as with x64 "FM8 (Automap).dll" jbridged to x32...

The same with "Triangle II.dll"...

It seems as if any dragn'dropped dll differs from the db plugin fxid wise... I also see always two entries for the same plugin in the plugin tab, for example "Triangle II" (the supported) and "[Triangle II]" (the manually added), or "FM8" (supported) and "[FM8]" (manually added), but only ONE entry in settings dialog: "Triangle II" and "FM8"...

Seems strange...

TabSel · Post by **TabSel** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:42 am

Big Tick wrote:...Zen uses the one with FXID 'Clm8'.

where or how can I check the fxid of "my" absynth5?

TabSel · Post by **TabSel** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:46 am

got it with VSTHost(x32):

Both of the Absynth .dlls, the original one, and automapped x64 jbridged to x32 one have Unique ID: 'Clm8'...

sorry to say, but it does not work as described...

TabSel · Post by **TabSel** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:49 am

both FM8, original and wrapped: Unique ID: 'Nif8'
both Triangle II: Unique ID: 'tnG2'

the same in your db?

Big Tick · Post by **Big Tick** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:52 am

Yep ! The weird thing is, when you drag the wrapped dll, it should then complain that this plugin already exists. I'll have to double-check that. Not having automap doesn't make it easy for me, though.

TabSel · Post by **TabSel** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:55 am

No Need for automap. Add the original dll First, then activate the Plug in the settings: two different Plugins in the Tab...

TabSel · Post by **TabSel** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:01 am

checked: If I FIRST activate Absynth in the settings, and THEN drag my Absynth to Zen, it says: "already added".

But not the other way: If I FIRST drag my Absynth to Zen, and THEN activate Absynth in the settings, they become and stay two different plugs, along with their presets, which will lead to doubled plugs/presets when you support it in your db later...

Big Tick · Post by **Big Tick** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:11 am

ok, good catch - because the plug is not activated, it is not found as a duplicate. I need to extend the check to de-activated plugins as well.

TabSel · Post by **TabSel** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:13 am

and pop a different message if the db plug is deactivated: "this plugin is already supported, please activate it in the settings"

or simply activate it automatically?

edit: and use the dragged path to the dll automatically)

edit: and create a modern looking desktop shortcut icon *ggg*

TabSel · Post by **TabSel** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:23 am

edit: and remember window positioning for every plug when closed and opened again at this position

edit: make the mechanism to bring up the plug GUI a toggle mechanism. a double click opens the gui, the next closes it...

edit: and provide more controllers (add 8 buttons) and allow multiple pages of controllers switchable by MIDI

BigTick

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