Formatting/deleting files and defragging SSD’s?

[metamorphosis]

You haven't read the article - please stop pretending you have - as I said all filesystems have limits to how much fragmentation they can handle - he is quite explicit about it- bye

I quoted from the article more than once - why do you think I haven’t read it?

Because you consistently misrepresent what the microsoft engineer is saying.

Every modern OS worth it's salt does a small amount of defragging to an SSD

So please don’t move the goalposts then effect an exit.

Not moving goalposts, that's your job. Have fun on the dunning-kruger curve. Cheers-

[Deep Purple]

You haven't read the article - please stop pretending you have - as I said all filesystems have limits to how much fragmentation they can handle - he is quite explicit about it- bye

I quoted from the article more than once - why do you think I haven’t read it?

Because you consistently misrepresent what the microsoft engineer is saying.

In what way? I have asked you what you have a problem with, but you have simply responded multiple times that I haven't read the article and then tell me you're leaving the thread.

Have fun on the dunning-kruger curve. Cheers-

That's not a particularly helpful comment, and it seems to me that you're using it as an insult rather than coming to a reasoned conclusion based on broader consensus. How could I possibly review your counter-arguments if you don't make any?

[jancivil]

It appears 'defragment' carries a connotation from that kind of re-ordering data on an HDD at the least. I know this, I was trying to upgrade a license to iDefrag and was in some back and forth with them, and the representative said, once it was determined I was on an SSD, that I didn't want to use their program on the thing. AFAIC, this is the useful meaning, the cherry-picked lingo in that article doesn't work so well for me as a definition.

[Deep Purple]

It appears 'defragment' carries a connotation from that kind of re-ordering data on an HDD at the least. I know this, I was trying to upgrade a license to iDefrag and was in some back and forth with them, and the representative said, once it was determined I was on an SSD, that I didn't want to use their program on the thing. AFAIC, this is the useful meaning, the cherry-picked lingo in that article doesn't work so well for me as a definition.

That's the point I've been trying to make (apparently unsuccessfully). I'm not disputing that there can be fragmentation on an SSD, but it doesn't require a traditional defragmentation program - the solution for an SSD is a different one from a traditional hard drive - it is more of an administrative auditing of available disk space as opposed to physically moving data.

Your rep is definitely correct in that you should not run a dedicated defrag program on an SSD.

[metamorphosis]

You haven't read the article - please stop pretending you have - as I said all filesystems have limits to how much fragmentation they can handle - he is quite explicit about it- bye

I quoted from the article more than once - why do you think I haven’t read it?

Because you consistently misrepresent what the microsoft engineer is saying.

In what way? I have asked you what you have a problem with, but you have simply responded multiple times that I haven't read the article and then tell me you're leaving the thread.

Have fun on the dunning-kruger curve. Cheers-

That's not a particularly helpful comment, and it seems to me that you're using it as an insult rather than coming to a reasoned conclusion based on broader consensus. How could I possibly review your counter-arguments if you don't make any?

Ha! okay mate. If you want to argue in circles, that's your business. Best of luck-

It appears 'defragment' carries a connotation from that kind of re-ordering data on an HDD at the least. I know this, I was trying to upgrade a license to iDefrag and was in some back and forth with them, and the representative said, once it was determined I was on an SSD, that I didn't want to use their program on the thing. AFAIC, this is the useful meaning, the cherry-picked lingo in that article doesn't work so well for me as a definition.

Defragment means what it means - reducing file fragmentation. SSD's also suffer from file fragmentation. There are limits to how much fragmentation each filesystem can manage. The article is pretty clear. It doesn't make a difference to performance on an SSD, it just stops the filesystem from Not Working. Not much is required, just enough to keep the filesystem in check, unlike an HDD.

[Deep Purple]

Defragment means what it means - reducing file fragmentation. SSD's also suffer from file fragmentation. There are limits to how much fragmentation each filesystem can manage. The article is pretty clear. It doesn't make a difference to performance on an SSD, it just stops the filesystem from Not Working. Not much is required, just enough to keep the filesystem in check, unlike an HDD.

Just out of interest, do you think I have disagreed with anything you have written above?

[lfm]

Defragment means what it means - reducing file fragmentation. SSD's also suffer from file fragmentation. There are limits to how much fragmentation each filesystem can manage. .

Just see an SSD as ordinary RAM memory - every sector/byte have the same access time - random access - so it does not matter - from that point of view.

If the sectors with data that make up what a file should be - they could be scattered like crazy on ssd - it does not matter. Access time to each sector is the same.

But hdd with cylinders where groups of heads need to be moved, and then rotation of disk makes access more efficient if what to be picked up by controller is on consequtive sectors that controller can handle in one single turn of disk, and less moving of heads over cylinders too.

I used Auslogics Disk Defragmenter to get visual feedback of disk as XP had, and was dropped on Windows 7 and later it seems. It has some optimizing of ssd as option - that I think is covered by some comments in this thread already.

[jancivil]

Well, I don't really like using the self-same term for two rather differently-functioning operations.

Yes, SSDs can haz fragmented files. And chances are you don't want to do the extra writing to it for what for most will be very little upside.

But here's more reading:
https://www.pcworld.com/article/2047513 ... tml?page=2

[jdnz]

There are limits to how much fragmentation each filesystem can manage. The article is pretty clear. It doesn't make a difference to performance on an SSD, it just stops the filesystem from Not Working.

I went hunting on knowledge base, since if there was a 'level of fragmentation' that made ntfs keel over, you'd be hearing server admins the world over demanding a fix

this is the only listed article relating to fragmentation limits on ntfs - and it's fragments PER file (and specific to just that file), it does NOT 'stop the filesystem working'

https://support.microsoft.com/en-nz/hel ... ond-a-cert

[Pictus]

File system fragmentation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_system_fragmentation

Yes, file system fragmentation DOES affect SSD read speed
https://www.overclock.net/forum/355-ssd ... speed.html

This PDF(already posted in this thread)
shows that file fragmentation raises the I&O of the solid state devices.

-----------------------

My take:

Decent SSDs have plenty of life...
https://3dnews.ru/938764/page-3.html



Want the maximum performance?
Then defrag the SSD...
At least the SSDs(library/data) that you always read and almost never write.