any future for MacBooks in music production ?

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Mac vs. PC.

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What I find amusing about it all is that the Mac side of the debate always feel like they should be allowed to say any outrageous thing at all without anyone daring to disagree, no matter how compelling the evidence they are presented with. They find it impossible to say something like, "yeah, I know that PCs today are really good and, yes, there is a lot more good software available for Windows but I just prefer my Mac for reasons that are completely subjective". But no, they have to insist that their decision is as rational as everyone else's, as though a rational decision was the only one that counted. But what a boring world it would be if we only ever made rational decisions.
jancivil wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:13 pmStraw man argument.
I think you need to read the original post again. I simply went by the word actually used.
What a normal person does is to look at their needs, decide on a form factor and features, then go and find a product that best fits those requirements.
And your straw man, being a fabrication of your own in order to ridicule other people in your never-ending quest for a superior impression on an internet forum, can never have done.[/quote]
Again, I don't think you've read the post I was responding to, where he very specifically said "The only portable Apple I need", not "the only portable computer" or "portable device". Clearly, in samsam's mind, the first priority is that it be an "Apple", other considerations being secondary. Had his intention been different, I'm sure he'd have set the record straight by now, don't you?
I don't use Windows in the first place out of certain pragmatism, avoidance of problems I know I won't have. You'll argue that acting like no one who doesn't "think" like you has any business having that viewpoint, that it's just a subjective viewpoint (itself a subjective viewpoint), and then posture some more about how it's all reasoned, logical, objective and just the truth. And now choices which, purely because of your subjective dislike of need be "justified".
The difference, of course, being that I spend 8 or 9 hours a day working in macOS and another 3 or 4 working in Windows 10, so I have a much more balanced perception of the relative merits of each. In fact, on Tuesday I got a shiny new cylindrical MacPro with 8 times more RAM and 3 times more CPU cores than my Windows machine at home, so my experience today is probably more valid than previously.
It's producing the opposite of the sort of superior reasoning pose you want.
This, right here, is the problem with this place. You make assumptions that have absolutely no basis in reality. You assume that when I post something here that I am doing it for my own benefit. Nothing could be further from the truth. I don't put even a passing thought into what I write says about me. That's what Facebook is for (and why I don't use it). The only thing I am doing here is talking about the experience of 20 or so years of Mac and PC use. Yes, it happens to be my experience but that shouldn't be relevant because I try to provide enough supporting evidence that anyone should be able to see where it has come from.
It's not only stupid it's childish.
Yes, basing current decisions on irrelevant, probably second-hand experiences from many years ago is childish in the extreme. You can call it "pragmatic" if you want but it is pretty clear to anyone who reads it that it is nothing more than "prejudiced". To be fair, I am clearly also making assumptions but given your lack of evidence to support your claim, plus the fact it goes completely against my own experience - I get more problems in a week on my Mac at work than I do in a year on my PC at home - really makes it impossible not to make assumptions.
jancivil wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:11 pmI have no idea how a regurgitated bit off the internet is a meaningful diss, let alone is objective or rational.
Have you not tried to type on any recent Apple laptop? The experience is awful, a fact backed up by numerous reviews, easily accessible to anyone.
Objectively one thing which made me go for the particular computer was the benchmark of rendering video. I'm pretty sure no windows box made by whatever entity is integrated with Final Cut Pro or Da Vinci Resolve and optimized like this for this task. And again it is insanely fast at this.
The professional world ditched FCP several years ago. Where I work they used to be about 50/50 between FCP and Avid Media Composer but we are now 100% Avid. I know other places who opted for Premiere Pro instead but absolutely everyone has stopped using FCP. It had once been a reason for using a Mac that made sense, as does Logic to an extent (especially if you were using it before Apple bought it) but it's almost as if Apple don't want anyone to have an actual reason to buy a Mac. DaVinci is cross-platform but you're the only person I have ever heard of who is using it (it's probably free for a reason). I've tried to get my work to move from After Effects to Fusion (another Blackmagic product) but nobody is interested, mostly because it's rubbish on Mac and the non-3D people here won't make the effort to learn how to use Windows, so we remain stuck with inferior solutions. (3D people have always used Windows because it works so much better for what we do.)
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Cinebient wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:48 pmDamn, indeed it is so stupid that people think they know what other people should use or what is better. And they talk about things they never really used or do not have a slight clue what they can do actually (because it is easy to do all the things mentioned and even it can do more than all the other hard- and software in some cases).
A convenient way to dismiss an uncomfortable truth but hardly any sort of argument its validity. Read my comment above and stop making assumptions. It is likely I have more experience in macOS/OS X/Mac OS than you do and that I use computers for far more demanding things than you do. So if my observations seem inaccurate, that's possibly because my requirements are more stringent and my expectations are higher.
Cinebient wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:24 pmI use midi input in all forms as well, a normal keyboard, a Seaboard Rise, my macbook keyboard even or just a flat glass surface (which works even better in some cases).
More assumptions. Like you, I also have a Seaboard Rise but my other MIDI input devices include full-size keys, mini keys, pads and a touch surface (Uno). All of which leaves your argument in the toilet, ready to be flushed away. Generally, I think I embrace change and new technologies when they have something of value to offer. It is people like you who remain stuck in the dark ages, placing brands above all else, afraid to try anything outside your tiny, blinkered realm of experience.
Etienne1973 wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:19 pmOn the other hand the fusion of macOS and iOS is inevitable I guess.
Why? What's the upside for Apple when, as I said, they can keep them separate and make you buy two devices instead of one.
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BONES wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:03 am
Clearly, in samsam's mind, the first priority is that it be an "Apple", other considerations being secondary. Had his intention been different, I'm sure he'd have set the record straight by now, don't you?
Why would I need to 'set the record straight''?

What record are you referring to?

Your posts are not 'records' of fact, they're your posts.

I don't answer to you or anybody else on here. Keep debating with the others but really, you can exclude me.

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I switched from Macbook pro to windows a couple ago, mostly for the touch screen 2-in-2's, but I do happen to like Windows anyways and use PCs for work. I do however really miss some things from my old macbook; the ability to aggregate audio devices, being able to use bluetooth midi, and most of all the three finger drag. This gesture is just so much better than what you can do with windows laptops it's crazy. And I can't believe that nobody has developed an app to replicate the three finger drag on windows. I'd be willing to pay good money for that.

But apple seem to be going in a bad direction. The little clicky keys are quite divisive in popularity. My Dell XPS 2-in-1 in comparison are quite good and equally short travel. And you can not upgrade anything in a mac anymore. Soon there will be no screws. The outer shell will be molded around the chips and drives in a perfect seamless alien looking true unibody. And that new glass patent, I don't know about that. Typing on glass feels like shit.

I'm still waiting for the macbook wheel and then I will switch back to apple:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA

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Sweet child in time...

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samsam wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:31 amWhy would I need to 'set the record straight''?
If I had misunderstood the intent of one of your posts. i.e. Did you say what I think you said or did you mean something else. I have been known to be mistaken in the past. Hard to imagine, I know, but it does happen.
Echoes in the Attic wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:46 am... and most of all the three finger drag. This gesture is just so much better than what you can do with windows laptops it's crazy. And I can't believe that nobody has developed an app to replicate the three finger drag on windows.
I assume it's because very, very few Windows users bother with trackpads. We use three-button, scroll-wheel mouses because that's what we've always been used to and they make trackpads seem terribly limited and incredibly lame. Disabling the trackpad is one of the first things I do when I get a new machine, especially these days with touchscreen. So what does the "three finger drag" actually do?
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BONES wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:45 am
samsam wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:31 amWhy would I need to 'set the record straight''?
If I had misunderstood the intent of one of your posts. i.e. Did you say what I think you said or did you mean something else. I have been known to be mistaken in the past. Hard to imagine, I know, but it does happen.
It would be really cool to see discussions like this relax back to a nicer tone. There was a misunderstanding, but the tone is already so negative it's hard to reassess one's stance. From what it looks like over here, this is what happened:
samsam wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:56 amThe only portable Apple I need is an iPad
In which "Apple" was the "flawed" part, according to this:
BONES wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:45 am Really? Just the precept of your post - that the things you think you need are "Apple" first, not "tablet" or "computer". i.e. You choose a brand before you decide on the device. That is flawed thinking beyond belief.
However, the one who needs a portable Apple device already owns licenses for iOS music apps, and so logically they need an Apple device to run them on. Because tools like that run on devices that are made by Apple. That's how "Apple" comes into that sentence, and it's a neutral observation on that need:
samsam wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:48 am I need an iPad to run iPad music apps on. It's made by Apple. No need to sweat the details.
This would have been the point where you could have said something friendly, like, "oh, okay if you have invested in tools on a given platform, I understand you need a device to run those tools on." Instead, it just shifts a bit and goes slightly absurd, also keeping the tone:
BONES wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:38 am And why do you "need" iPad music apps? They aren't compatible with the software on your Mac, are they? It's a poor attempt at justification.
The question suddenly becomes a general one, why does anyone "need" iPad music apps? This is different from the need described by the person you are replying to, even though there's no reflection on this distinction. It's as if it's the same thing, and it isn't, and it just creates more tension. In other words, if someone owns a set of tools that runs on a particular platform, they need a device that offers that platform in order to be able to use those tools, that's naturally the case, not "flawed." And that's the original need in question.

After that, this is then moved into a general view, "nobody needs a set of tools on the said platform", which is quite different -- and is hard to support, no matter which platform is singled out in this manner, as it seems there are always some interesting and inspiring tools on a given platform that don't quite offer the same feel in counterparts running on something else. It's down to what one likes and is inspired by.

Even if you could say "nobody needs to use [platform X] [tool X] [and so on] to make music" (it's true, just use something else that is available, and you can still make music), and target that at anything, really, it's not such a fruitful argument in this case. Instead, one could in a friendly manner assume that the person actually making the call enjoys some of those specific tools that differentiate the chosen platform for his/her creative use case. It would be nice if the default wasn't calling someone "flawed" because they happen to enjoy doing something differently than the other person, and then describe this "flaw" in an aggressive, unfriendly tone.

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The 3-finger drag does Mission Control, meaning you have more than one application open with one in focus full screen and you swipe up to see all of them, but minimized; and back down to return to focus on where you are if you don't choose to enter another and switch focus. App Expose similarly but swipe down from a not-full-screen focus to expose another app.
It does Show Desktop with a pinch/drag. I just set it for this. I don't use the above, I'm awkward.
Tap with 3 fingers is look up & data detectors. Cursor on a word, tap with the 3, there may or may not be more information.
Usefulness limited to the extent an app is designed to exploit it.

Some people like it. :shrug:

I bought a mouse last year because I wasn't getting along with the trackpad on a quite old MBP (it had a swollen battery, problems). I needed it to be real Bluetooth but it required USB making it a pointless buy so it went back. I got used to the trackpad finally, I don't see any great advantage to a mouse anymore. I'm not doing rocket science with mine, of course. :P

This is all subjective. It strikes me as odd to not know these things about the MBP trackpad but to have such a strong opinion on the usefulness of it to the extent of posturing you know more about Mac than everyone; except of course you know more about every single known thing, in your world.
Sorry, that's the real impression the posts give.
BONES wrote: More assumptions.
Ah, yeah...

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Apple easily won the tablet/phone war but does not even participate in the computer war anymore.

btw the lack of good audio drivers in windows before win10 and the fact that performance mode must be activated when you use a usb asio card to get good perf will keep windows a bad reputation for a long time.

today war is more about Amazon vs Microsoft, Amazon has won the first battle but Microsoft is rising :

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personal OS time is over, win10 was great but Microsoft won't improve it, all the best employees migrated to Azure team, there is no more any windows research pole at microsoft, the only good news is that windows will soon become free and open source.

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Reading online and forums here it seems macs have 90% more issues with audio than windows.. maybe windows is the present and future for music production.
Apple really screwed up with 2016-2018 MacBook pros..


The biggest issue I had on windows was external usb drive not showing up,
But nothing like this Mac OS audio glitching nightmare, and macs were supposed to be for pro audio and video etc, apple is partialy an audio company (iTunes, Apple Music , Logic X, aac format etc) and their MacBooks are this horrible at audio ? I don’t understand this
Macbook M1 Max 32GB Ram Cubase 12

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I got mid 2012 MBPr, and can’t figure out the issue with audio pops and clicks and glitches.

Did pretty much every single possible optimization suggested by you good people and from other online sources.
Also disabled WiFi and Bluetooth and uninstalled malwarebytes.

The big spikes - clicks on recorded waveforms seems to have disappeared, only quiet 1 second crackles get recorded sometimes like every 5 minutes,

But clicks on audio outs happened both with internal and external sound card , clicks are sometimes in left or right or in both channels randomly.

Idk maybe this MacBook is too old for high Sierra , but I don’t have the time right now to spend 2 weeks reinstalling all audio software on fresh install older OS..

I don’t know what else to do,

I’m thinking of getting a new MacBook form the store, reinstall OS and everything form time machine backup and see how the new MBP will behave.
But I don’t wanna be stuck with 2 MacBooks both glitching, especially with super expensive new one
Macbook M1 Max 32GB Ram Cubase 12

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Okay, who started the effing Mac vs PC bullshit THIS time?
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

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It's there in the response to BONES.



I don't care what anyone else chooses.
I have very definite reasons for choosing the operating system first, and I'm not trying to run it on a non-Mac box.



I can’t figure out the issue with audio pops and clicks and glitches.
You actually said there was no problem with iTunes audio. That it only happens with Cubase or Logic.
See if you can see the difference there.

"macs have 90% more issues with audio than windows" is strictly from Bizarro World though.
"their MacBooks are this horrible at audio"' - You have experience with as many as one of their computers, isn't it?
'nuff said

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The very premise of the thread regards speculation rather on the level of gossip. Don't rely on journalism to stand in for reality.

People have various experiences, though and that did get discussed. I have an extremely happy experience, someone else had a quite unhappy experience with a very similar build. Due to pretty different use cases and possibly due to getting a lemon.

I'm not using an audio interface, I agonized about this believing in the need for one from the beginning of my journey but I could not justify it in the end after doing my due diligence.
I'm no audiophile and I don't have anything which needs to be driven harder than the internal audio provides, and my experience using Cubase was that a very highly regarded RME box didn't do the performance it does on Windows anyway. I tried to get my guy at Sweetwater to advise me, being very specific about my use case and he wouldn't sell me anything. If I had to drive some speakers to mix on I would, but that isn't where I am.

So I have better performance by far than any in my life, it's just a very fast and responsive machine and it feels great to use. And the display is fantastic, the computer is a joy to use in every way.



Some people trust journalism and rumor far too much IMO.

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