any future for MacBooks in music production ?

[planetearth]

But with the coming of Apple's own ARM processors, I wonder how many customers and plug-in developers they'll lose. Current software either won't run at all, or it will take a serious performance hit on the new processors, so once again, Apple's customers will have to buy (or "upgrade") all their software again. And the devs will have to do it well before Apple's customers do, to have plug-ins ready (and relatively bug-free) when the customers switch processors and OSes. This will make the third time in 20 years, for some of them. In and of itself that's not much of a problem, but I've seen threads where some users are concerned that smaller developers can't keep re-coding their plug-ins into new versions while still offering support on the old ones.

The thing is, Microsoft are doing the same. They already have a version of Windows 10 for ARM and there are devices you can buy right now that run it. No-one is supporting it now but as it gains popularity, especially if Apple go the same way, you have to think developers will have no choice but to tag along. After all, plenty of them are already creating stuff for iOS and Android, so it's not going to be completely foreign to them, is it?

This is just a genuine concern that smaller developers simply may not have the resources to learn programming for ARM processors, and still offer support on Intel processor-based plug-ins.

Some may fall by the wayside but some small iOS and Android app developers will rise to take their places. It's just the natural cycle of things.

Right, Microsoft has done the ARM thing, but unless/until they optimize the code, even using Chrome is slow (painfully so, in the videos I've seen). The difference is that there will (probably) always be the x86-base code; Microsoft isn't going all-in on ARM and leaving their users with nowhere to turn if they don't want ARM.

And yes, as some developers fall, others will almost certainly step in to take their place. And most people won't care--until their favorite developer(s) fall(s). Then it's not funny any more.

Steve

[BONES]

I dunno, Synapse stopped supporting Orion years ago but it still works for me so I keep using it. I don't need them to be around for that. Autodesk Combustion was EOL'd in 2010 but I still prefer it to After Effects, so I still use it whenever I get the choice.

You just described your personal circumstances

Yeah, right, because I work in a sensory deprivation tank and have no contact with the other 20-odd people who work in my department and experience all the same problems. Nor did I have any contact with the dozens of other people I have worked with over the years or the hundreds of customers I served when I worked for Autodesk. You may sit in your mother's basement all day but I have an actual life and I welcome the opportunity to have it change my perspectives and opinions. The thing is, though, for every one of those moments there are 20 that simply confirm and/or reinforce my existing opinions.

I'm not sure why you have this pathological need to argue and insult people on this forum so much, but it's not impressing anyone.

And I have no idea what you expect to achieve by spending your time agreeing with people. Is your need to fit in with the herd really so strong?

I get it that you prefer PCs to Macs

It's not about what I prefer, it's about what works better. Empirically, provably better. And it is important to me because people saying nothing is why I have to put up with a MacPro 8 or 9 hours a day. Everybody hates them, we only have to use them because people who don't know any better assume that's what we'd all prefer.

I've seen quite a few people here note that you never waver from your modus operandi, and that it's very predictable and tiresome, but don't you think it's time to evaluate why you're doing it?

That's what having the courage of your convictions looks like so, no, I am perfectly happy talking about things of which I have some knowledge.

Most people give up on this sort of thing once they're out of their teens, but you seem to be much older than that and still want to feed your ego in this way.

Honestly, I don't have an ago. I am not wired the same way the rest of you are. I don't have to be right, it just happens that I am on certain subjects, because I have either learned about them or experienced things for myself that have allowed me to form an opinion. It's as simple as that.

Once you know you're right, why would you let other people say something that's wrong? That's how this stuff starts - people wax lyrical about Apple and pretty soon everyone just accepts that Macs are better than PCs. I always thought that was the case, because that's what everyone told me, but when I actually got to see for myself, I was more than happy to change my mind based on evidence.

Frankly I'm surprised that you don't get banned from here, but this forum is notorious for its lack of moderation, so I guess you're going to be allowed to continue in this manner.

Why would I get banned? I contribute and I obey the rules. I may not act like a 12 year old student waiting to see the Head Master but why would I? I am an adult, used to robust discussion. Language is a wonderful thing and used properly you can achieve a lot without breaking the rules. OK, many members here have English as a second language, so they are a bit behind the 8-ball at times, but I try to cut those people a bit more slack (but I honestly couldn't decipher Jancivil's post before).

Let me show you how it works, through an old joke. A guy gets pulled over and booked by a policeman for some minor infringement. The policeman is being a bit hard on the guy and he asks the policeman "can I get in trouble for what I think?" and the policeman answers "no, of course not. Why do you ask?" And the guy says "because I think you're a c**t". That's how you call a policeman a c**t and get away with it. It's not the words you use, it's how you use them. I don't, for example, call people idiots, I simply point out that you'd have to be an idiot to say what they have said. I insult their post, not them personally. Of course, it's really the same thing because they will always take It personally but that's on them, not me. I don't really know anyone here well enough to know whether or not they are idiots but a lot people definitely post a lot of things that suggest they might be.

[planetearth]

I dunno, Synapse stopped supporting Orion years ago but it still works for me so I keep using it. I don't need them to be around for that. Autodesk Combustion was EOL'd in 2010 but I still prefer it to After Effects, so I still use it whenever I get the chance.

Yes, but if you had to switch to a different OS and processor and you couldn’t go back to old versions of software you prefer, you might feel a bit...inconvenienced (to put it mildly).

Steve

[DrGonzo]

Another I am right you are wrong-thread. Hurrah!
I'm not letting the door hit me on my way out.

That has empirically, been proved better.

/C

[IncarnateX]

I do not even own my own laptop. The one I have is owned by the university. Basically, it would not matter if it is a MacBook or PC because they clusterfuck it with security, communication, network and surveillance crap to a point where it is deffo not funny working with. Neither do think it is worth it buying my own. I was on Orion Platinum when I was working from PC, and one thing I learned is that I don't really need countless of distractive features when making music. Thus, anything music related for which I need software (and i try to keep this as few things as possible), can be done in Cubasis 2 and Final Touch for iPad. If Orion was exported to iPad, this would be the deal.

As far as my daily work concerns, I just want to be able to read and write documents, make some Power Point presentations, check my mail and our internet portals. It is not like they make this easy for me.

As far as music goes, I just want to have some basic DAW features for mixing and finalizing.
It is simply not worth the mess just for these purposes.

Thus, I must be a pioneer in so far as neither PCs nor Macbooks have any future in my own music production. IMO, these machines are ancient.

[IncarnateX]

And the smart ones can buy a PC (which stands for Proper Computer).

Lucky you, Warren; Ain't such a thing as a Proper Computer in my world, only different platforms piled with crashable crap of which 90-98% is completely irrelevant to me. Trillions of running background services included. An oxymoron. It is but the lesser disease that wins.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Thus, I must be a pioneer in so far as neither PCs nor Macbooks have any future in my own music production. IMO, these machines are ancient.

Yes! A pioneer, indeed. Hopefully one day there will be a few more outliers such as yourself, and you could perhaps form a DAW-less community. Oh...Wait...!

[IncarnateX]

Yes! A pioneer, indeed. Hopefully one day there will be a few more outliers such as yourself, and you could perhaps form a DAW-less community. Oh...Wait...!

Sarcasm failure. ^^^ Sounds like a good thing to use your PC or iPad for.
Several youtube jammers take “DAWless music production” as label, so what exactly is the “wait” about here? Makes no sense by default.

Here let me give a hint:

Thus, I must be a pioneer in so far as neither PCs nor Macbooks have any future in my own music production

We are talking about music production as per title in this thread and not avoiding the PC all together, right? Even I cannot diss my PC for daily work, it is the lesser disease compared to using a type writer and handwritten letters, but for music production I see no reason why I can’t for that is what I do.

[telecode]

So in other words from the few comments above, MacBooks do not have a future in music production?

Not true at all. In this consumer centric society where people use credit card debt to purchase for status, there will always be sales of high priced (maybe over priced!) apple products and there will be people that want to make music on those apple products.

[telecode]

Pretty much. But you can't say anything negative about Mac without the fanbois getting stuck into you.

Some of it is fanbois. Some of it is just consumerism. You see, you could be a shit dirt kicker without a high income and you don't own anything worthwhile in this world. And it's going to be really really hard and take a lot of effort on your part to move your way up in social class. But one really easy way to do it which is guaranteed to boost your esteem is you can get yourself a credit card or a loan from a bank and buy expensive stuff like a expensive laptop, handbag or expensive car and show it off and take pictures of yourself with them and post online.

[telecode]

Sorry but you are completely, 100% wrong. The reality is the complete opposite, Windows 8/10 uses one-third fewer system resources than Windows 7 and half that of Windows XP. Windows is leaner than it's ever been. Yes, you get a bit more stuff in it now than you used to but in terms of being a good OS that frees up as many system resources as possible for your applications, Windows only gets better over time.

You is high dude. I am in IT. I don't do desktop support but work on *nix systems but do use Windows desktop OS as my work computer at work and for personal use. Windows 10 has become a bloat. You can't even use Win 10 without upgrading hardware to a SSD hd. Try picking up a older lappy that was speced and came with Win 7 and click that upgrade for free to 10 button. Good luck.

The vendors and they quality very all over the place. You could buy a shitty cheap low budget Acer and have problems up the kazoo or you could but highend Lenovo ultrabook and it will be stable -- though those high end ones almost cost as much as a Macbook these days.

FYI...for those in the market, take note of Chinese products when shopping around. They are quite good and priced competitively. Matebooks and so on. The Chinese companies aren't great innovators but they are amazing at making good quality carbon copy replicas of innovations created elseware. In some cases, the replicated technology is better than the originals because they have perfected the replication processes so well. A long time ago they were making replicas of swiss watch innovations and their replicas over time became better quality products than the Swiss as their industry slowly shrunk and deteriorated while the Chinese copy cat manufacturing process continued to mature and advance. The same is happening with some electronics products like laptops and mobile phones. Musical instruments as well. Check out some of the brass instruments they make.

[telecode]

But with the coming of Apple's own ARM processors, I wonder how many customers and plug-in developers they'll lose. Current software either won't run at all, or it will take a serious performance hit on the new processors, so once again, Apple's customers will have to buy (or "upgrade") all their software again. And the devs will have to do it well before Apple's customers do, to have plug-ins ready (and relatively bug-free) when the customers switch processors and OSes. This will make the third time in 20 years, for some of them. In and of itself that's not much of a problem, but I've seen threads where some users are concerned that smaller developers can't keep re-coding their plug-ins into new versions while still offering support on the old ones.

The thing is, Microsoft are doing the same. They already have a version of Windows 10 for ARM and there are devices you can buy right now that run it. No-one is supporting it now but as it gains popularity, especially if Apple go the same way, you have to think developers will have no choice but to tag along. After all, plenty of them are already creating stuff for iOS and Android, so it's not going to be completely foreign to them, is it?

This is just a genuine concern that smaller developers simply may not have the resources to learn programming for ARM processors, and still offer support on Intel processor-based plug-ins.

Some may fall by the wayside but some small iOS and Android app developers will rise to take their places. It's just the natural cycle of things.

Right, Microsoft has done the ARM thing, but unless/until they optimize the code, even using Chrome is slow (painfully so, in the videos I've seen). The difference is that there will (probably) always be the x86-base code; Microsoft isn't going all-in on ARM and leaving their users with nowhere to turn if they don't want ARM.

And yes, as some developers fall, others will almost certainly step in to take their place. And most people won't care--until their favorite developer(s) fall(s). Then it's not funny any more.

Steve

I dont know much about he ARM. I do know the iOS setup I have works well for what it is and is stale and the touch screen does make a different in workflow when the GUI is setup right. If the processor becomes much more powerful, I can see it being a replacement for x86 one day.

[telecode]

can be done in Cubasis 2 and Final Touch for iPad. If Orion was exported to iPad, this would be the deal.

Cubasis is a great product but the truth is, the iOS/iPad setup (which I do use), is not something you would be working with big 50 or 100 track projects and VST's up the kazoo. Its really a portable setup for doing demos and it works well for that.

[telecode]

But with the coming of Apple's own ARM processors, I wonder how many customers and plug-in developers they'll lose. Current software either won't run at all, or it will take a serious performance hit on the new processors, so once again, Apple's customers will have to buy (or "upgrade") all their software again. And the devs will have to do it well before Apple's customers do, to have plug-ins ready (and relatively bug-free) when the customers switch processors and OSes. This will make the third time in 20 years, for some of them. In and of itself that's not much of a problem, but I've seen threads where some users are concerned that smaller developers can't keep re-coding their plug-ins into new versions while still offering support on the old ones.

The thing is, Microsoft are doing the same. They already have a version of Windows 10 for ARM and there are devices you can buy right now that run it. No-one is supporting it now but as it gains popularity, especially if Apple go the same way, you have to think developers will have no choice but to tag along. After all, plenty of them are already creating stuff for iOS and Android, so it's not going to be completely foreign to them, is it?

This is just a genuine concern that smaller developers simply may not have the resources to learn programming for ARM processors, and still offer support on Intel processor-based plug-ins.

Some may fall by the wayside but some small iOS and Android app developers will rise to take their places. It's just the natural cycle of things.

Right, Microsoft has done the ARM thing, but unless/until they optimize the code, even using Chrome is slow (painfully so, in the videos I've seen). The difference is that there will (probably) always be the x86-base code; Microsoft isn't going all-in on ARM and leaving their users with nowhere to turn if they don't want ARM.

And yes, as some developers fall, others will almost certainly step in to take their place. And most people won't care--until their favorite developer(s) fall(s). Then it's not funny any more.

Steve

I dont know much about the ARM. I do know the iOS setup. I have one and it works well for what it is and is stable and the touch screen does make a difference in workflow when the GUI is setup right. If the processor becomes much more powerful, I can see it being a replacement for x86 one day.

[IncarnateX]

Cubasis is a great product but the truth is, the iOS/iPad setup (which I do use), is not something you would be working with big 50 or 100 track projects and VST's up the kazoo. Its really a portable setup for doing demos and it works well for that.

Have never been anywhere near 50 or 100 tracks and lesser would not mean I am making a draft only as far as I am concerned.

Usually I proces one already (hardware) mixed wavefile for finalizing it, so that will be one track only