KVR Audio

IgnisMalleus · Post by **IgnisMalleus** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:37 am

I appreciate you guys for sharing your ideas. I'm not into complicating matters even more so. If someone has taken the time to deal with patch bays and devices like the ADA8200 and that route, and it works for them, I am happy that they found a way to what they set out to. This way is not for me. If I do a line mixer, those of you that stated everything is mixed down to two-channel stereo are correct. Unless you are doing 5.1, 7.1, or some kind of surround soundtrack for a motion picture, isn't 2 channel stereo what most are streaming these days. I don't plan on my music ever becoming my career at all. This isn't because I lack talent or confidence either. I guess I watch too much Little House on the Prairie and admire having a strong work ethic like my Dad. A healthy body is only as healthy as its mind, and so many jobs out there involve having you sit for hours and hours and while you get more and more out of shape, and meanwhile, stress levels are through the roof. I just wanted family and friends to see what I have been blessed with being able to do. I have produced tons of songs that are radio quality over the years and just wanted people I know to finally show some interest in it. I thought if they saw the process of how I create in action they might just do that.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:01 am

If you record as midi you can still render audio from one external gear at a time. Then you have the flexibility with every instrument on separate track and the plugin thing as you please.

But you have to solo that track and record through the song for each track. Possibly solo mixer track too, to lower noise floor from channels not sounding right then. But most often I find you work with one instrument until done anyway, so doable. You really don't need to run every midi gear live for recording - the one you are currently working is enough, then you render it and free those inputs for next.

Even with just a patch bay as I started having only stereo input, I quickly swapped to the unit I was working on until that was rendered and done. A Behringer patchbay cost $100 or less, and cables are needed either way you go.

A preamp with AD converters is one level of electronics before AD, with mixer it's usually two in series, input stage and mixer - so a mixer might reduce quality a bit more. So up the game on mixer and you soon are in the same spot as ADA8200 in price. 8-channels mixer will be more than that.

But Mackie mixers with Onyx preamps are very decent in sound. Sure many line mixers are too, if your mind is already set.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:05 am

Sorry, but I think you don't get it yet.

A line mixer is a $300 19" box that expands your current audio interface with 8 line inputs.
The ADA8200 is a $300 19" box that expands your current audio interface with 8 recording channels.

The difference between a good recording and an excellent one, is attention to detail.
Being able to ajust a channels volume a bit after it is recorded, or apply effects or eq, that is crucial.
Once you have recorded a mix-down, not much can be polished up any more.
Havong everything multi-tracked is crucial.

The Noodlist · Post by **The Noodlist** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:20 am

BertKoor wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:05 am Sorry, but I think you don't get it yet.

A line mixer is a $300 19" box that expands your current audio interface with 8 line inputs.
The ADA8200 is a $300 19" box that expands your current audio interface with 8 recording channels.

The difference between a good recording and an excellent one, is attention to detail.
Being able to ajust a channels volume a bit after it is recorded, or apply effects or eq, that is crucial.
Once you have recorded a mix-down, not much can be polished up any more.
Havong everything multi-tracked is crucial.

A line mixer adds no inputs, it's stereo summed signal which can be routed to the existing line inputs on the audio interface.
ADAT adds 8 additional line/mic inputs to the Focusrite with just one cable using the Focusrite ASIO driver.

Stereo summed output has it's limitations. With ADAT, each synth/device can have dedicated channels, and all could playback internal synth sounds via MIDI, not stereo summed. A DAW template could be created a with all the inputs mapped to devices.

But, it's not what the OP wants, but it's nice to have options.

Edited after whyterabbyt pointed out something.
Where line inputs and routing/patching became a point of confusion.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:34 am

The Noodlist wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:20 am
BertKoor wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:05 am A line mixer is a $300 19" box that expands your current audio interface with 8 line inputs.
A line mixer adds no inputs, only a stereo summed signal

And what's it summing? 8 inputs.

So you can have 6 (because 8-2) more signals input in total than you did.

That's what BertKoor was saying. You're selectively quoting so you can play at semantics but your 'correction' about ADAT was already quite specifically made in his differentiation between 'inputs' on a line mixer and 'channels' on an ADAT box in the bit you omitted.

IgnisMalleus · Post by **IgnisMalleus** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:48 am

BertKoor wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:05 am Sorry, but I think you don't get it yet.

A line mixer is a $300 19" box that expands your current audio interface with 8 line inputs.
The ADA8200 is a $300 19" box that expands your current audio interface with 8 recording channels.

The difference between a good recording and an excellent one, is attention to detail.
Being able to ajust a channels volume a bit after it is recorded, or apply effects or eq, that is crucial.
Once you have recorded a mix-down, not much can be polished up any more.
Having everything multi-tracked is crucial.

I understand what you are saying and I totally see your point. After Checking the back of my interface, I found that I do have an ADAT Optical IN, I had to check since I have never used it.

I just took an even closer look at the ADA8200. Before when I had looked at it, I saw that the only way to output the audio was either the 8 separate XLR's or the ADAT and ruled it out because I thought my interface just had coaxial digital in.

I might, and I say might go with the ADA8200 however I have a question about it regarding the front-panel inputs.

How do I get 5 keyboards/synths in stereo to the front of this unit? All of my equipment has 1/4" Left and Right outputs so that makes 10x 1/4". There are only 8x 1/4" ins on the ADA8200. Are those 1/4" Line inputs on the front of the ADA capable of receiving a stereo signal? If so then I'm good with the ADA, I would be able to use the first 5 channels for my keys, channel 6 for MIC, 7 for guitar, and 8 for maybe another stereo unit.

The Noodlist · Post by **The Noodlist** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:08 pm

IgnisMalleus wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:48 am How do I get 5 keyboards/synths in stereo to the front of this unit? All of my equipment has 1/4" Left and Right outputs so that makes 10x 1/4". There are only 8x 1/4" ins on the ADA8200. Are those 1/4" Line inputs on the front of the ADA capable of receiving a stereo signal? If so then I'm good with the ADA, I would be able to use the first 5 channels for my keys, channel 6 for MIC, 7 for guitar, and 8 for maybe another stereo unit.

Up to 4 stereo sources can be used with the ADA8200, the inputs are mono, so 8 mono or 4 stereo pairs. So 4 keyboards in stereo from the ADA8200, the rest from the Focusrite.

You also have 4 rear line inputs (2 stereo) and 4 on the front (2 stereo) of the Focusrite, this would give a total of 16 mono or 8 stereo or 12 mics/4 line and other various other permutations.

ADA8200 4 synths in stereo
Focusrite rear - 1 stereo synth + 1 stereo input
Focusrite front 1 mic, 1 instrument + 2 line/2mic

Acid Mitch · Post by **Acid Mitch** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:36 pm

I’d go with a multichannel interface instead of a mixer in most situations.

IgnisMalleus · Post by **IgnisMalleus** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:38 pm

The Noodlist wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:08 pm The ADA8200 inputs are mono, so 8 mono or 4 stereo pairs.
You also have 4 rear line inputs and 4 on the front of the Focusrite, this would give a total of 16 mono or 8 stereo or 12 mics/4 line and other various other permutations.

Ok, Noodlist, I thank you for making that clear about the ADA inputs. For me, I think, since I will be doing live studio performances and wanting my windows audio from Cubase or Maschine to be heard on an OBS video recording and seem to only be able to that with the FL Studio ASIO driver, which limits me to a mixdown, a quality line mixer is a good idea.

lfm wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:01 am If you record as midi you can still render audio from one external gear at a time. Then you have the flexibility with every instrument on separate track and the plugin thing as you please.

But you have to solo that track and record through the song for each track. Possibly solo mixer track too, to lower noise floor from channels not sounding right then. But most often I find you work with one instrument until done anyway, so doable. You really don't need to run every midi gear live for recording - the one you are currently working is enough, then you render it and free those inputs for next.

Even with just a patch bay as I started having only stereo input, I quickly swapped to the unit I was working on until that was rendered and done. A Behringer patchbay cost $100 or less, and cables are needed either way you go.

A preamp with AD converters is one level of electronics before AD, with mixer it's usually two in series, input stage and mixer - so a mixer might reduce quality a bit more. So up the game on mixer and you soon are in the same spot as ADA8200 in price. 8-channels mixer will be more than that.

But Mackie mixers with Onyx preamps are very decent in sound. Sure many line mixers are too, if your mind is already set.

Ifm, thank you, I was thinking about this too for when I am not wanting to do a live performance and say just work on a song. Normally I am composing a track with either Focusrite ASIO or ASIO4ALL, and I do each instrument one at a time anyway, and just play in sync as best as I can, thankfully I have been blessed with a good sense of rhythm.

Now to decide on either the RX1602 or SM10. Overall I like that the cables will be in the back too.

IgnisMalleus · Post by **IgnisMalleus** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:53 pm

After all this serious contemplation, I really needed a good laugh and I got it and somewhat of an answer on which one to pick. The ending makes me ROFLMAO. F! F ity Bye!

https://youtu.be/cBP7JibnJbw

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:53 pm

IgnisMalleus wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:38 pm Now to decide on either the RX1602 or SM10. Overall I like that the cables will be in the back too.

So you're definitely not requiring any capability of EQing any of those inputs individually? You're okay with only being able to EQ the mix...?

I really don’t need a lot of features, everything can be EQ’d via software.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:25 pm

How about a 12 channel USB interface/mixer for around £360 ...

https://www.soundcraft.com/en/products/signature-12-mtk
https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Li ... h-USB/18EK

They make a 24 channel version too.

IgnisMalleus · Post by **IgnisMalleus** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:32 pm

whyterabbyt wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:53 pm
IgnisMalleus wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:38 pm Now to decide on either the RX1602 or SM10. Overall I like that the cables will be in the back too.
So you're definitely not requiring any capability of EQing any of those inputs individually? You're okay with only being able to EQ the mix...?

I really don’t need a lot of features, everything can be EQ’d via software.

For post-production I was planning to do plug-in based eq on the audio tracks individually if needed when doing a serious song track by track, yes the mix you speak of is only two tracks but on a live performance I’m good with each device as they sound and for a video and likely will not be too concerned about that. I get that there sometimes can be a possible harmonics issue and why EQ can be important. Sometimes we forget that most listeners like to EQ what they listen to anyway, since no ones hearing is identical.

AnX · Post by **AnX** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:29 pm

IgnisMalleus wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:32 pm Sometimes we forget that most listeners like to EQ what they listen to anyway, since no ones hearing is identical.

irrelevant

YOU eq individual tracks to fit the mix or sculpt the sound. You do it to fit your needs/taste. What the end listener does to the eq on the final mixed song their end has no bearing on this.

IgnisMalleus · Post by **IgnisMalleus** » Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:37 pm

AnX wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:29 pm
IgnisMalleus wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:32 pm Sometimes we forget that most listeners like to EQ what they listen to anyway, since no ones hearing is identical.
irrelevant

YOU eq individual tracks to fit the mix or sculpt the sound. You do it to fit your needs/taste. What the end listener does to the eq on the final mixed song their end has no bearing on this.

Are you writing your songs for yourself so just you can listen to it after you are done then? I get that, and I get it if you are a perfectionist and that you think its better the way you EQ'd every track.

I have been fortunate. Over the years I have rarely had to make these kinds of fine-tunings to feel like my music meant something to me. If I have a good piano patch, I can get emotional over the notes themselves, let alone a beautful evolving Synth Texture or Pad that imo need no fine-tuning of its frequencies.

I thought those mentioning being able to EQ each channel were telling me because they were creating for others who were listening and they wanted it to be just right for listeners. If that is the case then how is the fact that listeners are going to sculpt the entire final mix into what they think sounds good according to themselves irrelevant? Time is very precious to many people these days and sitting there pre-EQ'ng every track on a 30 track song for others to enjoy is pointless.

Have you heard what is selling on the charts these days? Everything as far as the ear can hear is all about a vocalist spewing an agenda that a particular group of people associate themselves with. How many are listening to music because of the instruments and how many are listening for the vocalist to say something they can relate to. I could care less about sitting there an entire day to EQ a 30 track song where no cares about the music.

Advice if a Mixer is the Answer for my PC based Home Studio