808...

[nilhartman]

Hey!

I might be absurdly picky... but I've never succeeded in impersonating an 808 with either DrumSpillage or Elecktroid in a really convincing way. And yet I think I know how to patch synths

My goal? "Cloning" its main elements (Kick, Snare and Hi-Hats), not as the end of it all, but as a starting point for all kind of 808 infused kits. I don't know, for exemple, going into Raster Noton territories while retaining the more similar tone and feel of the legendary drum-machine at the same time. Or something half-way between an 808 and what you'd expect from a Machinedrum. Wouldn't that be lovely?

So have you guys tried/succeeded in doing something super-similar? If so, how?

I can design some fantastic drum hits with AudioSpillage's plugins, be it a boomy kick or a snappy snare, that's not the issue here.

But when A/Bing my attempts to get close to the raw 808, damn something is always missing. I know the synthesis engines are different, and once again I don't want to have a stupid 808 replica, but still, I wish I had a few settings as "default" patch for tons of further tweakings.

FWIW, I try to do it all without any kind of external processing, but I feel that DS2 for example as it all (the enveloppes, modulations, harmonic content generator etc...) to succeed. And when A/Bing, I'm using the unprocessed (and fantastic sounding) Wave Alchemy's Transistor Revolution 2 kits.

But synthesis is so much funnier than samples...

Thanks & cheers!

n.

[BDeep]

Haven't made an attempt to get close to an 808 sound with DS myself, but, these articles by SOS describe how certain types of sounds are made, including practical examples on the 808 kick, cymbal, cowbell and snare. They're probably good for some inspiration and the included block diagrams will give you an idea which models in DS to use to approach these sounds.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep02/a ... rets09.asp
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb02/a ... ts0202.asp
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr02/a ... ts0402.asp
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Jul02/a ... ts0702.asp

[nilhartman]

Thank you BDeep! I've already read those several times across the years, but they remain relevant and insightful nevertheless.

I think the kick is the trickiest of the bunch, at least from my understanding of both the 808 and DS bass drums engines. But I'd love to be proven all wrong ;D The 808 kick has that distinct body/resonance that is so hard to reproduce. Once again I don't want a replica at all, but I'd love to be able to dial that sound.

To my ears, if I had to draw comparisons with a TR, DS2's kicks tend to sound more like a 909 one (or maybe that's a tone I manage to get easily out of it, too bad I've never been that much into its sound signature).

I might get close enough for the snare (getting the right enveloppes and body/snap ratio is the challenge here in my humble opinion) and hi-hats though. I

Maybe Stephen could shime in? I recall from an old email exchange we had years ago that he told me that some of the engine of DS1 were inspired by the 808 IIRC.

Oh and by the way, I don't plan to overprocess those drums. On the opposite, appart from some nice parallel buss compression and if needed some EQ here and there, I love my drums dynamic and quite raw.

[BDeep]

Been toying a bit with it, and got in the ballpark (I think) with BD2, Pitch Env close to 3x, No Decay, Damping 100%, Q 0%, a tiny bit of Drive and Noise to 0. The pitch envelope itself I had pretty short (88ms decay or something, with a slight exp curve) and a bit of negative bend.
Don't know if these setting would suite your tastes though.

Good luck

[nilhartman]

That's the kind of setting I usually end up with to
The 808 kick relying on the original triggering signal's feedback make it all so complicated (no matter how simple the sound is) to replicate...

[moscom_electronics]

I may not be the best at this 808 kick stuff, but the settings you all suggest seem ok to me. Then, there are a few trickeries in how the kick sound seems to actually work. For example, this paper (http://www.dafx14.fau.de/papers/dafx14_ ... ed,_ci.pdf) indicate that the pitch is not just decaying, but seems to go up as the sound reaches its end (if I understood it correctly). This paper is by the way a very nice resource to understand how the kick works. The same author has a few other papers on other 808 sounds that I find really informative.

Cheers
M

[audiospillage]

Interesting papers Moscom. It's been a while since I read about 808 internals!

Yes, some of the DrumSpillage models are based loosely around the 808 architecture. For 808 BD I would go for the BassDrum 2 model as it is much closer to the 808 than Bass Drum 1. Of course DrumSpillage was never intended to be a strict emulator though..

The key components are often the pitch depth and decay times. I've had success with 8X Pitch Env depth and short, say 20-30 ms decay times. At the same time. Less Pitch Env (2X) and longer 200ms decay times can also work.

If I get a chance I might post some example pads here for 808 type bass drums.

Have fun
AudioSpillage

[nilhartman]

Thanks Moscom & AS, highly appreciated.

Indeed I've had the most convincing results with the settings you describe. The trickiest part being, in my humble opinion, to recreate that kind of hmmm dry yet full body (can't find a better way to put it) of the 808 kick. I realize I've never mentioned that I'm not trying to create super long siney 808 kicks, which often turn to be a nightmare to mix. I've always preferred the shorter, punchier ones.

The snare isn't that simple as well.

Anyway,looking forward to checking your example pads!