Vaz feature requests

[MadGav]

One pole allpass filters, added as option in the Filter Rs if there's room for any more options... Non resonant small ones similar to the one-pole filter allready there could also be helpful, perhaps the middle position of the mode switch could be allpass?

Filter R has a very particular set of modes: the 16 available on the Xpander. These modes are made from linear sums of outputs from a cascade filter.

What would you use a single allpass stage for? I'll have a look to see whether it would work cleanly as an extension of the One-Pole Filter or whether it would make more sense as a separate module.

Martin

[MadGav]

Reverse versions of the Glitch modules, or simply a reverse swith - whichever would work best if it can be done. Modulation of playback direction for the glitches would be even better, but there's probably a ton of challenges with that.

Another request for the Glitch modules is control of playback pitch. For both the requests the limitation is that when you trigger the glitch it's first sampling the data, then at the end of the period starts playing back that data. Makes me wonder if a more general record/playback module would be more sensible. Not very sure what that would *be* though

Martin

[MadGav]

A 4-input version of the flexible 3-input mixer with added choice for negative or positive phase for each input, would make for a lot of pretty much instantly available flexibility when patching togeter structures based on feedback and cross-feedback.

A similar 2-input version for modulatable positive or negative feedback in simpler structures.

Simple mixers without volume adjustment or anything fancy, just inputs and an output - possibly a little red light that kicks in if clipping occurs. 2-input versions and some like 4, 6 and 8-input versions. A 3-input version could also come in handy. With these other mixers can have their outputs combined so we could for instance get a 16-input mixer by combining two 8-input mixers using two 2-input whatever-this-mixer-will-be-called-if-it's-brought-into-excistence's. And offcourse for combining signals when no adjustment of levels are nescessary etc. Would any special mode be required to use them for combining modulation signals?

Not sure I want *too* many modules which just have different number of inputs... is the 3-input mixer just 1 input short in many cases where you use it?

Main problem with unity mixers would be headroom, maybe have a single attenuator to tame the summed output? An 8 input version would be a little larger than the Min/Max 8, so could be a useful addition if I was to add just a single module? What do you want to use this for btw?

Martin

[Gone soft]

Filter R has a very particular set of modes: the 16 available on the Xpander. These modes are made from linear sums of outputs from a cascade filter.

What would you use a single allpass stage for? I'll have a look to see whether it would work cleanly as an extension of the One-Pole Filter or whether it would make more sense as a separate module.

Martin

The initial idea was to use them for slighter differences between layered sounds than the 3-pole would give, and for combining with other filters when a more discreet effect than that of the 3-pole would be desirable. And several in series with seperate modulation etc.

- reading up on the Xpander - Aha! Was wondering where you got the ideas for that particular set of filters some of which seemed slightly bizarre at first but eventually turned out highly useful with a little experience/experimenting. Also explained why some modes when swept made sounds that seemed strangely familiar in such a pleasing manner, probably from Erasure tracks etc.. (still don't know enough about the inner workings of filters, not sure where to begin with that...)

Not sure I want *too* many modules which just have different number of inputs... is the 3-input mixer just 1 input short in many cases where you use it?

Main problem with unity mixers would be headroom, maybe have a single attenuator to tame the summed output? An 8 input version would be a little larger than the Min/Max 8, so could be a useful addition if I was to add just a single module? What do you want to use this for btw?

Martin

Yeah, I get that (a reason I've hesitated to ask for something like that).. I was thinking of combining 4-input ones into what would work as 8-input ones for various purposes (one of the reasons for wanting the little unity mixers) and also for 4 osc FM/PM (including feedback/self modulation) with instant and freeflowing change of routing - plus delay structures where feedback and crossfeedback can be modulated, so it would seem pretty flexible to me.. If the 3-input ones could have a choice of positive or negative phace for each input signal I could definetely use that instead for the most, though they would be one input short for simple multitap delays (tend to use four..). I see the point about not wanting to many similar modules, I'll figure out ways of approximating the structures I'd want.
EDIT: being Captain Messyhead here, I would really appreciate an 8-input mixer of this type - if you find it a useful addition.

I was thinking we could just lower the levels on mixers and other things we combine with the unity mixers, so they could be as compact and simple as possible but a little attenuator may off course come in handy.. Just seemed tidier without it to me. Not quite following you on the MinMax reasoning. Add a module where? Or did you mean just add an 8-input unity mixer?

[Winstontaneous]

What's the best way to do sidechained audio gating/ducking in VAZ?
Is it an Envelope Follower modulating an Amplifier (with the gating signal driving the EF), or something else?

Would it be possible to add Gate/Ducker modes to the Compressor module?

[Gone soft]

What's the best way to do sidechained audio gating/ducking in VAZ?
Is it an Envelope Follower modulating an Amplifier (with the gating signal driving the EF), or something else?

Would it be possible to add Gate/Ducker modes to the Compressor module?

The manual says the following: "Side allows a different signal or processed version of the input signal to be used to control the compressor gain. For instance for vocal de-essing the signal would be run through a high pass filter and then into the Side input so the compressor would only respond to high frequencies in the vocal signal." Try using the dedicated side-input in this manner, I can't think of any better way. AFAIK the signal routed through the input will now politely bow down for the one feed through the "side" input and duck as you think it should. Or did I misread you?

For gating I would use an amplifier module, an envelope follower and an ADSR. Feed the signal that should control the gate into the follower, adjust sensitivity to avoid clipping and gate level so it, well, gates properly when you think it should. This would probably be called "treshold" on dedicated noise gates, if memory serves. Then you route the gate output of the envelope follower to the gate input of the ADSR. Set the ADSR to controll the amplitude of the amp module, feed the signal to be gated through the amplifier, tweek ADSR to taste.

What kind of gating effect do you want? It's possible you could also sequence the gating with a gate sequencer or trigger converter.

Did any of this make sense?

[Winstontaneous]

What's the best way to do sidechained audio gating/ducking in VAZ?
Is it an Envelope Follower modulating an Amplifier (with the gating signal driving the EF), or something else?

Would it be possible to add Gate/Ducker modes to the Compressor module?

For gating I would use an amplifier module, an envelope follower and an ADSR. Feed the signal that should control the gate into the follower, adjust sensitivity to avoid clipping and gate level so it, well, gates properly when you think it should. This would probably be called "treshold" on dedicated noise gates, if memory serves. Then you route the gate output of the envelope follower to the gate input of the ADSR. Set the ADSR to controll the amplitude of the amp module, feed the signal to be gated through the amplifier, tweek ADSR to taste.

What kind of gating effect do you want?

Just rhythmic audio-controlled gating.
I've been doing it in AudioMulch & Reason, both of which have dedicated Gates with sidechain inputs.

Thanks, I was on the right track but hadn't thought to use the ADSR like that.

[EvilDragon]

MadGav - couldn't you recode the modules which have variants with more or less inputs/outputs to just one module that has a knob for declaring the number of inputs/outputs, which in turn refreshes the UI of that module appropriately?

I assume that would be a lot of work, and would need additional code to retain compatibility with current patches, though, so I understand it isn't a likely thing to happen.

[MadGav]

MadGav - couldn't you recode the modules which have variants with more or less inputs/outputs to just one module that has a knob for declaring the number of inputs/outputs, which in turn refreshes the UI of that module appropriately?

I assume that would be a lot of work, and would need additional code to retain compatibility with current patches, though, so I understand it isn't a likely thing to happen.

Certainly *could* do this, but I'm currently aiming to make small changes to enable new possibilities.

Martin

[EvilDragon]

Right, understood!

[MadGav]

Next release will have new PolarMix 4-Input, UnityMix 2-Input and Allpass Filter modules.

Martin

[Gone soft]

Next release will have new PolarMix 4-Input, UnityMix 2-Input and Allpass Filter modules.

Martin

Speaking of small changes enabling new possibilities as you mentioned, any chance for a 64 button on the oscillators? At 32 and - 12 semitones it still doesn't take me quite as low as I'd occasionally like to go.. Filters could be modulated with the same waveforms at LFO range and audio range, peculiar pitchbends etc etc. Though there doesn't seem to be much room for a button like that visually... Some kind of transpose down button perhaps, if you'd consider this.

And a waveform with saw <-> triangle <-> inverted saw modulation (as the "waveshape" modulation of the LFOs), perhaps as an added option on the "classic" oscillator if implemented? Or an addition to the oscillator D, if it makes sense to put it there. Given up on keeping track of all the latest trends and subdivisions of genres, but some are using inverted sawtooths these days as it gives a certain character to the sounds so not just for those of us who like to modulate mostly everything...

[MadGav]

Speaking of small changes enabling new possibilities as you mentioned, any chance for a 64 button on the oscillators? At 32 and - 12 semitones it still doesn't take me quite as low as I'd occasionally like to go.. Filters could be modulated with the same waveforms at LFO range and audio range, peculiar pitchbends etc etc. Though there doesn't seem to be much room for a button like that visually... Some kind of transpose down button perhaps, if you'd consider this.

Run a Fixed Value into one of the FM inputs to offset the frequency? Or contrive an offset on the main pitch input?

And a waveform with saw <-> triangle <-> inverted saw modulation (as the "waveshape" modulation of the LFOs), perhaps as an added option on the "classic" oscillator if implemented? Or an addition to the oscillator D, if it makes sense to put it there. Given up on keeping track of all the latest trends and subdivisions of genres, but some are using inverted sawtooths these days as it gives a certain character to the sounds so not just for those of us who like to modulate mostly everything...

The Oscillator already has a Saw <-> Tri modulation, so the question is whether going though to the inverted saw is worthwhile... I think it should be easy enough to simulate this with some CV processing an inverter and a switch. If you find compelling results I'll reconsider

Martin

[shamann]

What would you use a single allpass stage for? I'll have a look to see whether it would work cleanly as an extension of the One-Pole Filter or whether it would make more sense as a separate module.

I'd be in favour of a separate allpass filter module. They get used a lot in DSP, so if ever deconstructing an algorithm (say a rudimentary form of a Schroeder/Moorer reverb model), a standalone allpass filter is handy to have.

It's also handy for taking a single input and mixing with a phase-delayed version of itself to make use of simple phase cancellation effects, which can be done in other ways, but I'd expect an allpass filter to offer a certain amount of precision above a comb filter, for example.

[Gone soft]

Run a Fixed Value into one of the FM inputs to offset the frequency?

Should have thought of that.

..and throwing the same value in both FM inputs offcourse makes it go even lower. But when I tried it out with the "classic" oscillator at a setting of 32 and FMd with a fixed value set at it's lowest there wasn't any difference when the fixed pitch module in the pitch input went below C3 (and offcourse that would be no difference below C4 if both FM inputs were used). No audible difference and no difference on the oscilloscope. The oscillator D and other more recent ones fares better here and work pretty much as I'd expect them to though some of the results are slightly surprising (delightfully so).

shamann: Dedicated allpass filters are coming, Martin posted that sunday. I expect they can also be used to avoid undesired phase cancellation in certain cases (perhaps part of the reason they're so much in use in DSPs for all I know). I have no experience with making my own reverbs, do you have any tips to get started with something rudimentary (but slightly more complex than the two delay module types)? What would I need, a bunch of combfilters with some slight random modulation or something like that? Is any crossfeedback usually involved, and would the modules be used in parallell or serially or a bit of both?