Metallica’s Death Magnetic. Even the mastering engineer distanced himself from it.
The Wagtunes Corner
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- KVRAF
- 15135 posts since 7 Sep, 2008
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
- KVRAF
- 1571 posts since 19 May, 2011 from North Carolina
Yeah I don't do much vocal work (for my band that's done in the studio), but when I have I've noticed a tendency to over-compress to smooth out the odd word or phrase like you said, and ended up with artificial-sounding vocal compression. Better to take care of those things up front, then you can toss on a gentle / character compressor and just adjust to taste.thecontrolcentre wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:13 pmThat's good advice and something I've always done myself. I think it's far too easy to just reach for a comp or a limiter rather than spending the time get it right in the first place (before mixing). Usually it's only the odd word or phrase that's sticking out.
Wags - one great "trick" for learning how to work with vocals, is to find some vocal-stems only tracks (there are plenty on YouTube, etc.). It's fascinating to hear what the vocals really sound like outside of the mix (though I think sometimes those tracks are still after the master effects, and of course after YouTube's processing). Still, I was always surprised that the spectrum of a lot of vocal tracks is different from what I'm perceiving. Fire up Audacity, record off the your PC audio, and drop a few stems in your DAW. Then get a spectrum analyzer or EQ with graphics, and this guy (this is the legit 64-bit port) to get a feel for the dynamics:
http://armandomontanez.com/smexoscope/
and learn away!
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21196 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
Okay, I just looked it up. It was a number 1 album across the board.Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:24 pmMetallica’s Death Magnetic. Even the mastering engineer distanced himself from it.
What does that tell you? Seriously.
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21196 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
What does this scope thing do?JoeCat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:28 pmYeah I don't do much vocal work (for my band that's done in the studio), but when I have I've noticed a tendency to over-compress to smooth out the odd word or phrase like you said, and ended up with artificial-sounding vocal compression. Better to take care of those things up front, then you can toss on a gentle / character compressor and just adjust to taste.thecontrolcentre wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:13 pmThat's good advice and something I've always done myself. I think it's far too easy to just reach for a comp or a limiter rather than spending the time get it right in the first place (before mixing). Usually it's only the odd word or phrase that's sticking out.
Wags - one great "trick" for learning how to work with vocals, is to find some vocal-stems only tracks (there are plenty on YouTube, etc.). It's fascinating to hear what the vocals really sound like outside of the mix (though I think sometimes those tracks are still after the master effects, and of course after YouTube's processing). Still, I was always surprised that the spectrum of a lot of vocal tracks is different from what I'm perceiving. Fire up Audacity, record off the your PC audio, and drop a few stems in your DAW. Then get a spectrum analyzer or EQ with graphics, and this guy (this is the legit 64-bit port) to get a feel for the dynamics:
http://armandomontanez.com/smexoscope/
and learn away!
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- KVRAF
- 15135 posts since 7 Sep, 2008
I bought it and listened to it on repeat for 2 years, completely ignoring the horrendous clipping. I’m still annoyed by it to this day TBH.wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:30 pmOkay, I just looked it up. It was a number 1 album across the board.Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:24 pmMetallica’s Death Magnetic. Even the mastering engineer distanced himself from it.
What does that tell you? Seriously.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21196 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
Well, wasn't quite the answer I was looking for but I'll tell you what it tells me. If this album is so horribly produced and yet it still made #1, then obviously a lot of this stuff is widely subjective.Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:34 pmI bought it and listened to it on repeat for 2 years, completely ignoring the horrendous clipping. I’m still annoyed by it to this day TBH.wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:30 pmOkay, I just looked it up. It was a number 1 album across the board.Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:24 pmMetallica’s Death Magnetic. Even the mastering engineer distanced himself from it.
What does that tell you? Seriously.
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thecontrolcentre thecontrolcentre https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=76240
- KVRAF
- 35162 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny
It's a spectrum analyzer. Gives you a visual of a tracks frequency content.wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:31 pmWhat does this scope thing do?JoeCat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:28 pmYeah I don't do much vocal work (for my band that's done in the studio), but when I have I've noticed a tendency to over-compress to smooth out the odd word or phrase like you said, and ended up with artificial-sounding vocal compression. Better to take care of those things up front, then you can toss on a gentle / character compressor and just adjust to taste.thecontrolcentre wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:13 pmThat's good advice and something I've always done myself. I think it's far too easy to just reach for a comp or a limiter rather than spending the time get it right in the first place (before mixing). Usually it's only the odd word or phrase that's sticking out.
Wags - one great "trick" for learning how to work with vocals, is to find some vocal-stems only tracks (there are plenty on YouTube, etc.). It's fascinating to hear what the vocals really sound like outside of the mix (though I think sometimes those tracks are still after the master effects, and of course after YouTube's processing). Still, I was always surprised that the spectrum of a lot of vocal tracks is different from what I'm perceiving. Fire up Audacity, record off the your PC audio, and drop a few stems in your DAW. Then get a spectrum analyzer or EQ with graphics, and this guy (this is the legit 64-bit port) to get a feel for the dynamics:
http://armandomontanez.com/smexoscope/
and learn away!
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thecontrolcentre thecontrolcentre https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=76240
- KVRAF
- 35162 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny
wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:41 pmWell, wasn't quite the answer I was looking for but I'll tell you what it tells me. If this album is so horribly produced and yet it still made #1, then obviously a lot of this stuff is widely subjective.Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:34 pmI bought it and listened to it on repeat for 2 years, completely ignoring the horrendous clipping. I’m still annoyed by it to this day TBH.wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:30 pmOkay, I just looked it up. It was a number 1 album across the board.Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:24 pmMetallica’s Death Magnetic. Even the mastering engineer distanced himself from it.
What does that tell you? Seriously.
Metallica were one of the biggest selling bands in the world. Most fans probably bought it unheard, and many wouldn't know the difference anyway (imho).
Last edited by thecontrolcentre on Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21196 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
So then it's similar to Voxengo's Span.thecontrolcentre wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:41 pmIt's a spectrum analyzer. Gives you a visual of a tracks frequency content.wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:31 pmWhat does this scope thing do?JoeCat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:28 pmYeah I don't do much vocal work (for my band that's done in the studio), but when I have I've noticed a tendency to over-compress to smooth out the odd word or phrase like you said, and ended up with artificial-sounding vocal compression. Better to take care of those things up front, then you can toss on a gentle / character compressor and just adjust to taste.thecontrolcentre wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:13 pmThat's good advice and something I've always done myself. I think it's far too easy to just reach for a comp or a limiter rather than spending the time get it right in the first place (before mixing). Usually it's only the odd word or phrase that's sticking out.
Wags - one great "trick" for learning how to work with vocals, is to find some vocal-stems only tracks (there are plenty on YouTube, etc.). It's fascinating to hear what the vocals really sound like outside of the mix (though I think sometimes those tracks are still after the master effects, and of course after YouTube's processing). Still, I was always surprised that the spectrum of a lot of vocal tracks is different from what I'm perceiving. Fire up Audacity, record off the your PC audio, and drop a few stems in your DAW. Then get a spectrum analyzer or EQ with graphics, and this guy (this is the legit 64-bit port) to get a feel for the dynamics:
http://armandomontanez.com/smexoscope/
and learn away!
- KVRAF
- 1571 posts since 19 May, 2011 from North Carolina
Like an oscilloscope (see waveforms) but runs for longer time so you can trigger and view a single drum hit or a section of a track:
Especially good for visualizing the results of limiting, compression, dynamic range, and for drum hit decays, etc.
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21196 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
So then if you have a name and make crap, people will buy it anyway?thecontrolcentre wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:43 pmwagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:41 pmWell, wasn't quite the answer I was looking for but I'll tell you what it tells me. If this album is so horribly produced and yet it still made #1, then obviously a lot of this stuff is widely subjective.Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:34 pmI bought it and listened to it on repeat for 2 years, completely ignoring the horrendous clipping. I’m still annoyed by it to this day TBH.wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:30 pmOkay, I just looked it up. It was a number 1 album across the board.Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:24 pmMetallica’s Death Magnetic. Even the mastering engineer distanced himself from it.
What does that tell you? Seriously.
Metallica were one of the biggest selling bands in the world. Most fans probably bought it unheard, and many wouldn't know the difference anyway (imho).
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thecontrolcentre thecontrolcentre https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=76240
- KVRAF
- 35162 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny
Actually, I think it does a bit more than I thought (just clicked the link). It's 64 bit now, so Im gonna check it out myself.wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:44 pmSo then it's similar to Voxengo's Span.thecontrolcentre wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:41 pmIt's a spectrum analyzer. Gives you a visual of a tracks frequency content.wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:31 pmWhat does this scope thing do?JoeCat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:28 pmYeah I don't do much vocal work (for my band that's done in the studio), but when I have I've noticed a tendency to over-compress to smooth out the odd word or phrase like you said, and ended up with artificial-sounding vocal compression. Better to take care of those things up front, then you can toss on a gentle / character compressor and just adjust to taste.thecontrolcentre wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:13 pmThat's good advice and something I've always done myself. I think it's far too easy to just reach for a comp or a limiter rather than spending the time get it right in the first place (before mixing). Usually it's only the odd word or phrase that's sticking out.
Wags - one great "trick" for learning how to work with vocals, is to find some vocal-stems only tracks (there are plenty on YouTube, etc.). It's fascinating to hear what the vocals really sound like outside of the mix (though I think sometimes those tracks are still after the master effects, and of course after YouTube's processing). Still, I was always surprised that the spectrum of a lot of vocal tracks is different from what I'm perceiving. Fire up Audacity, record off the your PC audio, and drop a few stems in your DAW. Then get a spectrum analyzer or EQ with graphics, and this guy (this is the legit 64-bit port) to get a feel for the dynamics:
http://armandomontanez.com/smexoscope/
and learn away!
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- KVRAF
- 15135 posts since 7 Sep, 2008
Well I don’t agree with the term crap to summarise the album but I understand your point. Yes if Coldplay released a horribly produced album it would still be no 1 for months and months.wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:45 pmSo then if you have a name and make crap, people will buy it anyway?thecontrolcentre wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:43 pmwagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:41 pmWell, wasn't quite the answer I was looking for but I'll tell you what it tells me. If this album is so horribly produced and yet it still made #1, then obviously a lot of this stuff is widely subjective.Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:34 pmI bought it and listened to it on repeat for 2 years, completely ignoring the horrendous clipping. I’m still annoyed by it to this day TBH.wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:30 pmOkay, I just looked it up. It was a number 1 album across the board.Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:24 pm
Metallica’s Death Magnetic. Even the mastering engineer distanced himself from it.
What does that tell you? Seriously.
Metallica were one of the biggest selling bands in the world. Most fans probably bought it unheard, and many wouldn't know the difference anyway (imho).
If B grade band did the same it would be regarded as an artistic decision. If C grade band did it, who knows?
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 21196 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
So a lot has to do with who you are. Thus, I would assume that to at least get to that point, your initial efforts would have to be well produced, like Boston's first album.Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:49 pmWell I don’t agree with the term crap to summarise the album but I understand your point. Yes if Coldplay released a horribly produced album it would still be no 1 for months and months.wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:45 pmSo then if you have a name and make crap, people will buy it anyway?thecontrolcentre wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:43 pmwagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:41 pmWell, wasn't quite the answer I was looking for but I'll tell you what it tells me. If this album is so horribly produced and yet it still made #1, then obviously a lot of this stuff is widely subjective.Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:34 pmI bought it and listened to it on repeat for 2 years, completely ignoring the horrendous clipping. I’m still annoyed by it to this day TBH.
Metallica were one of the biggest selling bands in the world. Most fans probably bought it unheard, and many wouldn't know the difference anyway (imho).
If B grade band did the same it would be regarded as an artist decision. If C grade band did it, who knows?
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thecontrolcentre thecontrolcentre https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=76240
- KVRAF
- 35162 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny
It's not crap ... but it's been over compressed (apparently during mixing) to the point where it hurts your ears if you listen to more than one song. It's completely maxed out all the way through. Victims of the loudness war ...wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:45 pmSo then if you have a name and make crap, people will buy it anyway?thecontrolcentre wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:43 pmwagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:41 pmWell, wasn't quite the answer I was looking for but I'll tell you what it tells me. If this album is so horribly produced and yet it still made #1, then obviously a lot of this stuff is widely subjective.Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:34 pmI bought it and listened to it on repeat for 2 years, completely ignoring the horrendous clipping. I’m still annoyed by it to this day TBH.wagtunes wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:30 pmOkay, I just looked it up. It was a number 1 album across the board.Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:24 pm
Metallica’s Death Magnetic. Even the mastering engineer distanced himself from it.
What does that tell you? Seriously.
Metallica were one of the biggest selling bands in the world. Most fans probably bought it unheard, and many wouldn't know the difference anyway (imho).