The Wagtunes Corner

Share your music, collaborate, and partake in monthly music contests.
Post Reply New Topic

What CD Would You Like To Hear Me Do?

Modern Pop (Katy Perry, Taylor Swift, etc.)
8
5%
Classic Rock (Stones, Beatles, Who, Zep)
9
5%
Prog Rock (Yes, Genesis, Kansas, etc.)
18
10%
Show Tunes Style (Sound Of Music, My Fair Lady, etc.)
5
3%
Country (Alan Jackson, Garth Brooks, etc.)
4
2%
Disco (Bee Gees, Tramps, etc.)
24
14%
Metal (various sub genres)
16
9%
EDM (various sub genres)
24
14%
80s (various genres)
14
8%
Your Music Sucks. Please Stop Making It
52
30%
 
Total votes: 174

RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

wagtunes wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:51 pm
vurt wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:47 pm well i want you to realise that you too are a damn talented person.
at every aspect? no, course not, those freaks are few and far between and of course lucky bastards.

but you write good, sometimes great lyrics.
again, all the time? no, but even the beatles wrote some shite :shrug:

give yourself some credit 8)
you deserve it, rather than self deprecating as much as you do.
and im made up for you about that band :)
Well, I'm a realist about things. My own mother told me I had no singing voice. She was a voice teacher and didn't even bother trying to teach me how to sing. She said it had to do with how my voice box was constructed and the size of my frame.
That's pretty bad, man.

There are people who really cannot sing. And then there are people who, within a range can do what they need to do to convey message and emotion. I don't believe either Waits or Dylan are good singers, but they sing better than anybody could for the songs they write. When you stick to your range, and compose for that range (Not like the twee nonsense you could achieve by pitching perfect-hit notes up two octaves, with Vocaloid), your singing is fine. Having spent a few hours with City Juice, I can honestly say there is not a single moment where the vocal makes me flinch. I know you've used some occasional pitch correction, and there's nothing wrong with that. You've even managed to get some swagger going with the phrasing.

Suffice to say, your vocals are really improving, and having been one of the people rallying at the front -line to convince you to ditch Vocaloid in favour of your voice, I think history bears out that it was the right call :tu:

Post

theres a video on youtube of some vocal coach watching mike patton (faith no more/mr bungle/peeping tom/tomahawk/dillinger escape plan/solo stuff/genius) recording some vocal takes

she does not look like it's going well in her eyes, that guy has great vocals for his style 8)

Post

Here's one last thing to consider, with regard to time/effort given and the 'Police' album.

Why stick to the album paradigm? Why do you always have to write 10-or so tracks? Why delete the pool with a load of average, when you could put all the effort into a few much better tracks?

Also, consider the idea of letting things breathe. If a song doesn't feel like it's working, then shelve it. At some point you might return to it and make some changes that will make it work, or decide that it was never going to work. By releasing all this (in your opinion) sub-par work you are just diluting your output. No one has time to listen to all of your work; even less so, if they've just made it through an album that even you think is 80% crap :shrug:

If you just release the good shit, then everything has the chance of being hit and not miss.

Post

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:42 pm
wagtunes wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:51 pm
vurt wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:47 pm well i want you to realise that you too are a damn talented person.
at every aspect? no, course not, those freaks are few and far between and of course lucky bastards.

but you write good, sometimes great lyrics.
again, all the time? no, but even the beatles wrote some shite :shrug:

give yourself some credit 8)
you deserve it, rather than self deprecating as much as you do.
and im made up for you about that band :)
Well, I'm a realist about things. My own mother told me I had no singing voice. She was a voice teacher and didn't even bother trying to teach me how to sing. She said it had to do with how my voice box was constructed and the size of my frame.
That's pretty bad, man.

There are people who really cannot sing. And then there are people who, within a range can do what they need to do to convey message and emotion. I don't believe either Waits or Dylan are good singers, but they sing better than anybody could for the songs they write. When you stick to your range, and compose for that range (Not like the twee nonsense you could achieve by pitching perfect-hit notes up two octaves, with Vocaloid), your singing is fine. Having spent a few hours with City Juice, I can honestly say there is not a single moment where the vocal makes me flinch. I know you've used some occasional pitch correction, and there's nothing wrong with that. You've even managed to get some swagger going with the phrasing.

Suffice to say, your vocals are really improving, and having been one of the people rallying at the front -line to convince you to ditch Vocaloid in favour of your voice, I think history bears out that it was the right call :tu:
Well sure. The problem is, what do I want to be? A writer or performer?

If I want to be a performer, then yes, I need to write for what I'm capable of singing.

But if I want to be a writer, which is all I ever wanted to be (the thought of performing in front of people or going into a studio scares the crap out of me) then I have to be able to write for just about anybody. The song I'm working on now REALLY needs a jazz singer and a good one. My vocal on this is HORRIBLE. No amount of pitch correction can fix this. So I'm going to have to dress this thing up with tons of arrangement and other stuff to take the focus off these wretched vocals. This is a damn tough song to sing. Didn't seem like it in my head but getting in front of a mic, way different story.

Point is, Bob Dylan got in front of people and sang. I can't do that. I won't do that. I have no desire to do that. My normal range is a handful of notes. If I write like that for other people, I'm not going to get a lot of business, that's for sure.

So again, performer or writer?

I choose the latter.

Post

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:48 pm Here's one last thing to consider, with regard to time/effort given and the 'Police' album.

Why stick to the album paradigm? Why do you always have to write 10-or so tracks? Why delete the pool with a load of average, when you could put all the effort into a few much better tracks?

Also, consider the idea of letting things breathe. If a song doesn't feel like it's working, then shelve it. At some point you might return to it and make some changes that will make it work, or decide that it was never going to work. By releasing all this (in your opinion) sub-par work you are just diluting your output. No one has time to listen to all of your work; even less so, if they've just made it through an album that even you think is 80% crap :shrug:

If you just release the good shit, then everything has the chance of being hit and not miss.
Except I'm obviously a lousy judge of what's good and what's crap. It's the songs I wasn't wild about that landed me a record deal.

So what does that do to your theory?

I'm a lousy judge of my own material?

And if that's the case, how the hell would I even know what's good and what's not good to release.

Apparently, I have no clue.

Post

It's been said before, but you need to put a bit of distance between yourself and your material, in terms of time (And yes, I know your counter-arguments).

Then i'd suggest you come back to them with fresh ears and try to judge them as if you were judging someone else's work. Failing that, find some people who's opinon you trust, and let them help you decide which are the tracks that are worth pursuing. Somewhere between your own opinion and theirs is likely where you'll find the answer.

Anyway, I'm done with this. I can imagine you'll have a comeback for everything that's suggested. I'm definitely invested in one of these projects, which I happen to really enjoy. So, let's get that sorted sometime soon :tu:

Post

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:16 pm It's been said before, but you need to put a bit of distance between yourself and your material, in terms of time (And yes, I know your counter-arguments).

Then i'd suggest you come back to them with fresh ears and try to judge them as if you were judging someone else's work. Failing that, find some people who's opinon you trust, and let them help you decide which are the tracks that are worth pursuing. Somewhere between your own opinion and theirs is likely where you'll find the answer.

Anyway, I'm done with this. I can imagine you'll have a comeback for everything that's suggested. I'm definitely invested in one of these projects, which I happen to really enjoy. So, let's get that sorted sometime soon :tu:
I'm just going to say this. The song that ultimately got this band's attention got some pretty bad responses including how the background vocals sounded out of tune. I myself was not wild about the track. So that would have unanimously put this track into the scrap heap, never to be heard by anyone else and my record deal never happens.

The point is, you just never know because this is a fluky and unpredictable business.

Yes, let's just finish up the project and leave it at that.

You understand at this point you'll never get through to me.

Post

8th track from my upcoming CD "The Cool Cat In The Wind"

Boy, if ever a song REALLY needed somebody who can sing. I do not do this justice at all. At least the arrangement is good. Any jazz singers want to tackle this one? :lol:

Bearcat Betty

She's got the look you know
The one you want to take a long
You don't see It everyday
Just makes you want to sing a song

In time she really gets to you
She crawls inside your empty heart
And there's just nothing you can do
Nothing can keep you two apart

They call her Bearcat Betty
A Philly for sure
Bearcat Betty
For her there's no cure
They call her Bearcat Betty
She wins every race
Bearcat Betty
She runs with such grace
I wish I could make her mine
She wins with me every time
She's so fine

I think about that girl
She fills me up with so much joy
I never thought I'd find such love
She makes me such a happy boy

I can't imagine life without
My Betty yeah she's everything
She makes me want to jump around
She makes me want to dance and sing

Repeat Chorus

Repeat Verses 3 and 4

Repeat Chorus

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim/bearcat-betty

Post

9th track from my upcoming CD "The Cool Cat In The Wind"

I would have done more with this but the project got corrupted, wouldn't reload and I had to resort to a backup. I finally got fed up and left it "unfinished." It's still pretty dense as far as arrangement so I'm content with it as it is. Still, Cubase pisses me off to no end when it does this stuff.

This is probably the most "commercial" song on the CD.

My Dame My Doll My Everything

I can't believe it
Can't believe that I found you
Can't you see it
What I'm like when around you
And I gotta scream it to the whole world

You're my dame
You're my doll
You're my everything
You're my dame
You're my doll
You're my everything

And you make me want to sing

When you're near me
I can feel all the passion
Can't you hear me
Our love's always in fashion
And I gotta scream it to the whole world

Repeat Chorus

And you make me want to sing
For all the joy into my life you bring
Without you life don't mean a thing

Repeat Chorus 2 x

And you make me want to sing
You're my everything

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... everything

Post

wagtunes wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:25 pmI won't even mention the harder option because I'm sure you wouldn't want to do it.
So! How're we going to do this?

I still have suggestions about things that I would change, were this my project. However, I doubt you'll want to be bothered.

So, tell me what you had in mind :tu:

Post

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:01 pm
wagtunes wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:25 pmI won't even mention the harder option because I'm sure you wouldn't want to do it.
So! How're we going to do this?

I still have suggestions about things that I would change, were this my project. However, I doubt you'll want to be bothered.

So, tell me what you had in mind :tu:
Honestly, I didn't have anything in particular in mind. Since you were kind enough to offer to do this, I thought I'd leave it up to you. I'm fine with whatever you come up with.

Post

wagtunes wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:01 pm
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:01 pm
wagtunes wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:25 pmI won't even mention the harder option because I'm sure you wouldn't want to do it.
So! How're we going to do this?

I still have suggestions about things that I would change, were this my project. However, I doubt you'll want to be bothered.

So, tell me what you had in mind :tu:
Honestly, I didn't have anything in particular in mind. Since you were kind enough to offer to do this, I thought I'd leave it up to you. I'm fine with whatever you come up with.

I have suggestions to make with regard to the bass and organ. I'd also probably try and add a bit of variety in the drum-track (A couple of different fills, perhaps). It's fine as it is, but ideally there'd be a bit of variety.

Ultimately, whatever happens should be your decision. You might not care for my advice, and you might be fine with the drums as they are (Which I definitely am, also). You have to be happy with the end result.

To that end, I could either send you what we agree is a good balance/spread of sounds as a stereo mix, but dry, so you can have a bit more flexibility with mixing,(Maybe not too much so as to not have enough freedom to lose the overall dynamic of the performance). Or I can bounce out the tracks for each drum separately, albeit with some of the processing intact. That gives you more freedom (which comes with great responsibility :ud: )

I could venture a mix, myself. However, even if I could improve on yours, it would no doubt stick out from the rest of the album. Of course, there's no reason not to have an alternative version. However, in that case, maybe it might be of interest to you to submit it to the Mix-Challenge, or to someone you know who might be up for giving it a go :tu:
Last edited by el-bo (formerly ebow) on Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post

...
Last edited by ghettosynth on Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Post

ghettosynth wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:28 pm
vurt wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:47 pm well i want you to realise that you too are a damn talented person.
at every aspect? no, course not, those freaks are few and far between and of course lucky bastards.

but you write good, sometimes great lyrics.
again, all the time? no, but even the beatles wrote some shite :shrug:

give yourself some credit 8)
you deserve it, rather than self deprecating as much as you do.
and im made up for you about that band :)
Yeah man, and don't forget prolific. Jesus you can crank em out. Even if they don't say it I know that a lot of people wish they had the sense of freedom that you do with respect to writing and actually finishing songs.
Thanks Ghetto, but that's not something that ever came hard to me. Part of that has to do with being OCD. Once I start something I have to finish it or I go crazy. So in that respect, there is simply no way I can have an unfinished song laying around.

Worst case scenario for me is I start working on a new song and I don't like the direction it's going so I change direction. Sometimes what I finish with sounds nothing like what I started with but ultimately I get from point A to point B even if I ended up taking 700 detours along the way. Sometimes it's the tempo that needs adjusting. Sometimes I hate the chorus and replace it with something else. Sometimes I feel the arrangement is all wrong and do something completely different with it. Sometimes the lyrics get some major revisions. Sometimes even the title gets changed. But I never just scrap something. I work on it until I'm happy with it and then I finish it.

Having said that, sometimes I finish something and down the road I listen to it and go to myself "This stinks." Trust me, I don't love everything I do. But I have to finish it no matter what.

I guess there is good and bad to that because let's face it, that kind of work ethic can churn out a lot of junk.

As we've all heard.

Post

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:21 pm
wagtunes wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:01 pm
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:01 pm
wagtunes wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:25 pmI won't even mention the harder option because I'm sure you wouldn't want to do it.
So! How're we going to do this?

I still have suggestions about things that I would change, were this my project. However, I doubt you'll want to be bothered.

So, tell me what you had in mind :tu:
Honestly, I didn't have anything in particular in mind. Since you were kind enough to offer to do this, I thought I'd leave it up to you. I'm fine with whatever you come up with.

I have suggestions to make with regard to the bass and organ. I'd also probably try and add a bit of variety in the drum-track (A couple of different fills, perhaps). It's fine as it is, but ideally there'd be a bit of variety.

Ultimately, whatever happens should be your decision. You might not care for my advice, and you might be fine with the drums as they are (Which I definitely am, also). You have to be happy with the end result.

To that end, I could either send you what we agree is a good balance/spread of sounds as a stereo mix, but dry, so you can have a bit more flexibility with mixing,(Maybe not too much so as to not have enough freedom to lose the overall dynamic of the performance). Or I can bounce out the tracks for each drum separately, albeit with some of the processing intact. That gives you more freedom (which comes with great responsibility :ud: )

I could venture a mix, myself. However, even if I could improve on yours, it would no doubt stick out from the rest of the album. Of course, there's no reason not to have an alternative version. However, in that case, maybe it might be of interest to you to submit it to the Mix-Challenge, or to someone you know who might be up for giving it a go :tu:
Well, having never done anything like this with another person, I am honestly at a loss. I have no idea what I want to do. So I'm going to need you to be like my teacher. Tell me what you want me to do and I'll do it. Seriously. I need that kind of direction or nothing's gonna get done.

Post Reply

Return to “Music Cafe”