MeldaProduction

Chandlerhimself · Post by **Chandlerhimself** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:45 pm

Someone asked me if MSF could make a sound like an engine, so I came up with this. Hopefully you find this interesting and useful. If you like this type of video on sound design let me know and I'll do more.

https://youtu.be/6Ifg8Xu8hAA

werzel · Post by **werzel** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:35 pm

Fun stuff! Thanks for the tour through your process.

Tagirijus · Post by **Tagirijus** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:44 pm

Haha, you have a great approach there! I already finished a MSF device for Meldaproduction some time ago with lots of presets. But I really like your technique here!! Thanks for the vid, Chandler.

operator · Post by **operator** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:21 pm

Hey Chandler,

I really like your videos. They are always inspiring to watch! Keep up the great work.

In addtition to the video (I hope I don´t sound like a know-it-all) You inspired me to write this so, hopefully no hard feelings and the props goes to you!!) And if I`m coming across like a know-it-all, I apologize sincerly!

A motor litrally is a natural Oscillator the rpm (hz*60) defines the Pitch of the motor. The human hearing associate a motor with a rise and fall in pitch (mostly), like you said it is similar to the doppler-effect. BUT it isn´t the same at all! The rise in pitch in the motor comes from the faster oscillation of the motor not because of wave-overlaps (like in doppler).

So I tried only with one Oscillator (like a motor is) and an envelope for speed and gear shifts. I thought i include the preset here (to change character, just handdraw harmonics/ or randomize like i did):

Code: Select all

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ZentralmassivSound · Post by **ZentralmassivSound** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:49 pm

operator wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:21 pm A motor litrally is a natural Oscillator the rpm (hz*60) defines the Pitch of the motor.

Well I doubt that. A motor is a huge combination of dozens of mechanical parts which all emit their vibrations. Like the four (or more) cylinders moving, the chemical exlposions, etc. But the largest part of the sound comes from the vibrations of the exhaust system. And that has more to do with airflow and such things. Modelling that in realtime would require supercomputers I guess. Just my 2 Cents.

operator · Post by **operator** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:55 pm

ZentralmassivSound wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:49 pm

Well I doubt that. A motor is a huge combination of dozens of mechanical parts which all emit their vibrations. Like the four (or more) cylinders moving, the chemical exlposions, etc. But the largest part of the sound comes from the vibrations of the exhaust system. And that has more to do with airflow and such things. Modelling that in realtime would require supercomputers I guess. Just my 2 Cents.

But the 4 cylinders are conected by one thing (in german it´s called: Kurbelwelle)... this spins by the frequency of the sound. (RPM or in german: Umdrehung pro Minute). And this will determine the frequency of the sound of the motor, therefore it is the dominant sound of the engine.

By the way: everything that cyles/or alternates is like a "natural oscillator".. oscillation means spin in cycles (or sth similar). Put poker cards into the wheel of your bike and you got yourself a "natural" oscillator. Even multiple Explotions (which sound exactly the same) in 300hz intervalls (temporary intervalls) would produce a 300hz sound (plus the explosion sound of course)

This is physics.. I can´t do anything about that.. sorry

But of course to make it super-realistic you need more than just an oscillator.. I said the main ingredient in the sound is (like most of the time) the core association with the sound --> Speed up = pitch up / slow down = pitch down... for example use a saw wave and modulate the pitch very slightly up and down (doppler) and you got yourself (a cheap copy of) a fly without simulating the wings themselves..

EDIT: Of course for the doppler "fly" effect you also would need to modlulate the Amplitude and Pan to your liking (best from left to right or vice versa)...

operator · Post by **operator** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:03 pm

ZentralmassivSound wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:49 pm
[...] dozens of mechanical parts which all emit their vibrations.

And you wouldn´t hear a certain pitch if it wouldn´t oscillate/vibrate in this perticular frequency... and as we can HEAR it does that in a really consistent way.. therfore it´s a "natural" oscillator which you can even reproduce certain pitches (65hz = 3900 rpm) try it with a tuner!!!!

operator · Post by **operator** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:07 pm

ZentralmassivSound wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:49 pm But the largest part of the sound comes from [...] the exhaust system.

Sorry for this: But you couldn´t be more wrong. If anything, it only amplyfies it (or modulates the character)

ZentralmassivSound · Post by **ZentralmassivSound** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:34 pm

The revolving frequency of the motor just makes for the fundamental (that goes up and down) but that is not the characteristic part of the sound. Otherwise you would just need a sine wave. Ask an exhaust designer about sound.

operator · Post by **operator** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:40 pm

ZentralmassivSound wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:34 pm The revolving frequency of the motor just makes for the fundamental (that goes up and down) but that is not the characteristic part of the sound. Otherwise you would just need a sine wave. Ask an exhaust designer about sound.

Use a drilling maschine and test for yourself... it doesn´t have an exhaust system and it still produces a rich spectrum!!! To think a motor only produces a sine/fundamental

(I apologize, but this is crazy!)
The only difference to a car motor (sound-wise) is the size therfore it has a slightly sharper character due to small parts, small resonant space and smaller casing that vibrate along the moving parts in the motor..

In the car motor the explosions are at a 4th of the frequency of the "kurbelwelle" (in a 4 cylinder motor). And yes, this also produces overtones (and a fundamental of course)... in a traktor you can even hear them very well, aside of the "kurbelwelle" because the explosion-cycles seem to be at the lower-border of the hearing (it almost produces a pitch, but you can still hear the individual explosion)

EDIT: By the way, my Omniblend Gastro Blender (around 40.000rpms) sounds like a Jet... and it doesn´t even have an exhaust system.

ZentralmassivSound · Post by **ZentralmassivSound** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:56 pm

Why is it so difficult to discuss over the internet

I meant that you were implying that a motor is just an oscillator. But you didn't say it was a sine wave, so I rephrased that wrong, sorry.
But that a driller sounds different to a motor perfectly proves my point: all the parts of the device add up to the sound produced, it's not a perfect oscillator. Every little part that's moving a bit is an oscillator and adds a bit to the sound.
And that the motor has an exhaust and the driller doesn't adds to the difference in sound. I guess there are kind of "formant" parts of the sound which don't change linearly with the motor rotating frequency. Of course you can try to mimic that using modulation on your one oscillator. But it'll never sound like a motor, it will just sound reminiscient of one.

operator · Post by **operator** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:22 pm

ZentralmassivSound wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:56 pm Why is it so difficult to discuss over the internet
I meant that you were implying that a motor is just an oscillator. But you didn't say it was a sine wave, so I rephrased that wrong, sorry.
But that a driller sounds different to a motor perfectly proves my point: all the parts of the device add up to the sound produced, it's not a perfect oscillator. Every little part that's moving a bit is an oscillator and adds a bit to the sound.
And that the motor has an exhaust and the driller doesn't adds to the difference in sound. I guess there are kind of "formant" parts of the sound which don't change linearly with the motor rotating frequency. Of course you can try to mimic that using modulation on your one oscillator. But it'll never sound like a motor, it will just sound reminiscient of one.

I know, I feel the same way.

that we somehow think the same thing, and we can´t verbalise it corectly... or miss our opposite points that we make. So I will say in advance, we´re both right...

BUT, If you look a few posts up --> I talk about the ASSOSIATION to a sound. And with a motor the most associated sound is the speed up and slow down thingy.. that means a rise and fall in pitch.

And of course!!! I give you 100% right all the parts, the surroundings of the motor, the air-temperature around the motor and your ears are responsible for the sound character you`re hearing... and yes the exploisons are a big part of it too, BUT as they are a fraction of the frequency of the spinning part in the motor ("kurbelwelle"), I still consider the motor as an "natural" oscillator, BECAUSE you can reproduce a constant wave-cycle that is repeating --> therefore it is a rudimentary "scientific" oscillator/tonegenerator. If you want to, you even could make rudimentary "scientific" tests with 2 identic copies of the same motor like: play mathematical/musical intervals (octave. fith, etc)...

A whip (german: Peitsche) on the other hand produces a tone when struck, but it doesn´t repeat in cyles. it is just a burst of sound... therefore no "natural oscillator".

I don´t say, that a car motor is the same as an oscillator in a synth.. it´s just semanticly an oscillator which functions in the same physical principals --> when it´s spun at a certain frequency it produces a CONSTANT pitch/waveform.

And for me the definition of this missleading term "natural oscillator" is, when something produces a CONSTANT waveform and a CONSTANT pitch (and in a motor you even can modulate the pitch).

The raw sound of the motor is some rich spectrum...when reproducing a motor sound it isn´t the most important part... Becuase when you substitute the spectrum of the original motor-sound with a similar sound spectrum and then modulate the pitch like in a motor... your brain makes the connection to the motor sound (associate). Like in my Preset in my first post... I just created the spectrum with randomize function... and yet your brain will say, that this sounds like a motorcycle.

jmg8 · Post by **jmg8** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:38 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5opv-r9nZc

operator · Post by **operator** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:41 pm

AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!! I want this for my wedding... they shall play me down the ile... wouldn´t that be romantic.

EDIT: I asked my wife.............. we´re getting seperated now... hahaha

steve2KVR · Post by **steve2KVR** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:15 pm

1/...imho, never "ask" your wife anything, forgiveness is far more likely than permission...and...
2/...does any one else besides me in this thread actually "wrench" their own cars?...seems to me that getting into an argument about engine noise/sound/signature without your head under the hood is a bit of a stretch. I've won and lost a fare amount of beer/cash diagnosing a problem just by the "sound" of the machine...here? I am clueless about how to "create" that signature from scratch.../s~

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