Care To Discuss MSF Main Controllers?

[dmbaer]

This is in response to both DarkStar's and jmg8's last post.

Here's the problem with your solutions, assuming we are talking about MSF (that is, I think it's a shortcoming but I could certainly be mistaken). We are talking about per-voice behavior, and in this case filter cutoff specifically. Therefore our MIDI manipulation *must* be per-voice. It's entirely possible that the MC is associated with an MPE-enabled CC. With cutoff, that would likely be CC74 if the user has an MPE keyboard.

So, playing around with MP min and max values is no good. We need to control the depth of the modulation in the per-voice modulation grid, do we not? So, setting the base cutoff value with an MP is OK. But using MP min and max values to dictate the modulation range is not an option ... unless I'm seriously overlooking some trick here. Perhaps there's some arcane way to translate the MP min/max range into a depth parameter for the per-voice modulation slot, but why go to all that trouble? Better to have an MP directly control the modulation depth for the modulation being dealt with.

I hope to have time in a few days to throw a simple demo - that should make this a whole lot easier to discuss. Until then ...

[DarkStar]

I picked the Filter in the FX section, used Value and Max and those 3 main Controllers just to throw together a quick example of the way it could be approached. I reckon that you could use Filter in the Generator, select a Range Mode of Up+Down for the Multiparameter controlling the Cutoff and use whatever Main Controller you wish..

[MeldaProduction]

I must say, I have become completely lost in this . What exactly are we discussing here now? It seems to me like everyone is talking about something different

[dmbaer]

I must say, I have become completely lost in this . What exactly are we discussing here now? It seems to me like everyone is talking about something different

Yes, these posts are a little like ships passing in the night.

My interest was specifically in discussing per-voice modulation via MCs. Having an MP control be a slave to an MC is a whole different thing - not unimportant but somewhat simpler to contemplate. With per-voice modulation, MPE comes into the picture and this is new territory for a lot of us, I think. Also, modulation via the per-voice grid is a whole different thing that a lot of us (I suspect) are still trying to come to grips with.

Anyway, I hope to have time in two or three days to put together a simple demo rig to illustrate the way I think this could/should be approached. If there's a different way that proves to be the consensus choice, I would like to know that before committing time to using the MCs in devices I hope to call final versions. That's why I started this thread in the first place.

[jmg8]

This explains the confusion. The way I understood it, was that we are to attach only MPs to the MCs.

[MeldaProduction]

Well, personally I thought MC's will mostly control MPs, but who knows. Perhaps you will come up with something I didn't think of.

[dmbaer]

Well, personally I thought MC's will mostly control MPs, but who knows. Perhaps you will come up with something I didn't think of.

You do remember adding them to the per-voice modulation source list, don't you? Or were you coding in your sleep again?

[MeldaProduction]

Haha I do remember, but that's not really related to the topic is it?

[dmbaer]

Haha I do remember, but that's not really related to the topic is it?

It's *very* related. In fact, my primary interest in having a Main Controller capability was with modulation of Generator parameters.

Here's the example I promised much earlier. The basic setup is as follows. We have a subtractive LP synth filter that gets a lot of action. Having set the base cutoff, we want to be able to make excursions from that base cutoff using either the mod wheel (MC 1) or timbre (CC 74). There's an envelope we can modulate cutoff with, and depth of that envelope can be made dependent upon velocity, to whatever degree is desire. Finally there's an LFO that can be applied to cutoff, and cutoff depth can be made dependent upon keyboard modulation via MC 2. In other words, this should be all the modulation one could wish for in a sub. synth filter scenario.

Here's a simple preset to do it. This is something I hope to use in a real device as soon as the TurboFilter is ready for action. The modulator grid for cutoff (in this demo example, plain old Filter module is used) is shown along with six MPs in the screen shots below. A final version would also include MPs to govern envelope and LFO attributes, of course.

It all works like this:

MC 1 acts on freq cutoff excursion via row A in the mod grid of Filter Frequency; same with CC74
MP "CC Excursion Amt" controls A1 and A2 Depth and ultimately dictates excursion amount

Env 1 acts on cutoff freq via row B in the mod grid
MP "Env. Depth" controls B1 depth and ultimately dicates effect of Env 1 on cutoff
MP "Vel. -> Env." controls B2 depth and ultimate dictates how much velocity will effect the Env 1 effect on cutoff

LFO 1 acts on cutoff freq via row C in the mod grid
MP "LFO Depth" controls C1 depth
MP "CC->LFO" controls C2 depth
MC 2 controls C2 Depth which ultimately dictates how much the LFO affects cutoff; when 0%, MC 2 has no effect on LFO depth; when 100%, it entirely governs how much LFO modulation you hear in the filter

Here's the preset if anybody's interested:

Code: Select all

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