multiband doppler effect possible with a melda plugin ?

[magicmusic]

i have now a modern guitar combo with FX Send /Return. there is other problem that speaker cabinet sound not so good. please look at this thread. i have add microphone and DI osciloscope output and output of non cabinet screenshots there. so you can see what happen. maybe you know a solution for better sounding cabinet viewtopic.php?f=6&t=534453&p=7569798#p7569798

[MeldaProduction]

All I can say - NEVER compare audio by oscilloscope, unless you have a very good reason to do that. Just allpassing the signal makes it completely different...

[magicmusic]

this is a single cycle waveform and all cycles look same. so osciloscope is ok to compare i think. an important thing is also that the microphone record sound much more diffrent depend on level of signal and have more attack as the DI record with speaker simulator. i think this is the most worse i hear on speaker simulator it sound static in compare to microphone record

[MeldaProduction]

this is a single cycle waveform and all cycles look same. so osciloscope is ok to compare i think. an important thing is also that the microphone record sound much more diffrent depend on level of signal and have more attack as the DI record with speaker simulator. i think this is the most worse i hear on speaker simulator it sound static in compare to microphone record

Could you post some examples? Anyways again oscilloscope is NOT the tool to use! Never! Unless you are doing some scientific research and you know what you are doing. Just try lowpassing this in such a way that you pretty much won't hear a difference - guess what it will still make the shape completely different!

[magicmusic]

I have send you private some examples in 88 khz 24 bit wav. so you can process the record from FX Send with mcabinet and compare with microphone record. upload on youtube have quality loss

[MeldaProduction]

But I need something that I would simply listen to and hear what you are hearing...

[magicmusic]

then you hear not that there is a big diffrence in the files i send ?. in the microphone record the distortion is in the attack more and sound diffrent and get softer and sound diffrent after 500 ms. on the cabinet simulation distortion stay same in first 500 ms and sound static. maybe it help that you hear diffrence when you loop 1 sec or 500 ms and compare. many guitarplayer use not DI records it can really hear big diffrence. its really no imagination. you can also look on FFT and compare.

I think this happen because the speaker have on more volume some distortions on high frequency but decrease max high freq the speaker can play. when volume is reduce during decay the speaker get less distortions and change sound.

If it help i can try create impulse response at mid speaker volume and on low volume from the cabinet with mband convolution. I can do it also with high volume with 90 db, but i think then the room have some influence too. I use only around 80 db for test and walls are more than 2 meter way from speaker.

[magicmusic]

i have upload to youtube a short compare. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84_jmqSsYzc

first is DI record from FX send of cabinet go into mcabinet VST. So notes that play and distortion is on both the same because i record 2 channels at once. FX send and microphone input. loudness is around 80 db, not so loud to avoid room influence. the microphone record i think better because it have not so harsh distortion and attack is more hearable. other speaker sims have same problem, i hope in future there come speaker simulations that simulate better. EQ match or amp match of bias does not help. seem the speaker do lots of distortion on frequency at attack levels. maybe impulse IR of diffrent levels can help

[magicmusic]

I need also say that the combo i have is half open. here you can hear diffrence between closed and opened cabinet. is not my video, there are many that let hear diffrence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-baV0F2EIMg the open cabinet have not such a harsh sound. if you think it is too dull can enhance with EQ at 6 khz it still sound smoother as closed and sound bright. maybe you can add a closed/open cabinet simulation switch too ?

[MeldaProduction]

Well, the problem is, everything you posted and sent to me was more like a different IR, I see no proof of anything related to doppler.

[magicmusic]

maybe the speaker did other distortions in high freq that depend alot on volume level, that seem not can simulate because it can not with EQ match get the sound of microphone record. only when i set the speaker cabinet to very low volume it sound with microphone record very simular to cabinet simulation.

[magicmusic]

stand on page of stanford university. there are links to more

Guitar Effects Research @ CCRMA
Electric Guitar Distortion Effects and Cabinet Acoustics

Amp Cabinet Acoustics and Miking Techniques

The design of guitar amplifier cabinets is very unusual in that they are often not designed with acoustics in mind. There is no tweeter and no crossover filter to limit the range of frequencies that drive the transducer. Therefore, the woofer works in a range that is not typical for most low-frequency transducers and itself acts like an acoustic instrument with a radiation pattern dictated by the vibrations of the cone. Many of the original vintage cabinets are open back, allowing for a complicated second path for the sound to radiate. The closed back cabinets do not seem to be designed for any particular frequency response. More recently there have been cabinets with ports that are probably designed for a particular frequency response.

The radiation pattern of the speaker cabinet is extremely complicated because of its unusual design. It is important to know the radiation pattern as a function of frequency so recording engineers may better know how to position the microphone to achieve a particular sound. Amplifiers are also commonly miked in the near-field of the transducer which has a complicated pressure field. As of now, amplifier miking is pure art, and requires extensive experience and experimentation. The goal of this research is to gather data on this practice and derive a theory that can guide the placement of microphones for recording electric guitar to streamline recording sessions.

https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~dtyeh/

[Chandlerhimself]

I'm pretty sure the problem is the type of IR you're using. It's going to be impossible to get an IR that sounds exactly like the speaker you own with a mic on it. There are too many variables such as speaker type, mic type, placement, room acoustics and mic preamp. Speaker distortion rarely happens, so that most likely isn't the difference you're hearing. Also speakers a largely linear, so the volume won't matter much.

The difference you're hearing is most likely something else. It could be the mic preamp you're using to record your amp. Depending on the preamp and how hard it's being driven it can distort. Another possibility is the way you're getting the DI. Before you mentioned the FX loop. If you are getting the DI sound out of there it can sound quite a bit different from the mic'd amp. The FX loop is before the power amp and so you'll be missing all the power amp distortion and compression. A power attenuator is better, but even those will color the sound somewhat.

I can't really say what is causing the differences in sound because I'm not in your studio, but the speaker simulation is one of the least likely things.

[magicmusic]

if the speaker make no strange distortion, then it must be possible with freeform eq or other with "equalize to sound like" that it sound very simular to the speaker record as it happen with clean or crunch guitar. the microphone is not the problem, because i can record clean sound with this microphone and i can with "equalize to sound like" and reach the same clean tone so i can not hear a diffrence

diffrence only get more and more when much distortion is use.

[magicmusic]

It make a better sound when use an exciter after cab simulator. for example ozone exciter work good. the sound without exciter must reduce in treble so that frequency above 4 khz more cut. and that it sound not dull add exciter and then a EQ match come closer to cab microphone record and sound not dull or harsh. because exciter do distortion this also show that wide band speaker create some kind of distortion