MSF Feature Request: Add S&H Modulators to the per-voice modulators

[] Peter:H []

I would like to share a video covering the S&H of the ARP 2600 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfbanKeRtB8
And here's a 2nd link - read about an ARP 2600 an it's modules, please scroll down to chapter 12 to read about the S&H: https://github.com/CreativeInquiry/ARP-2600

[] Peter:H []

Bump... Would love to see this in 13.03. Any Chance?

[MeldaProduction]

I actually didn't fully read this, but shouldn't the new custom modulators do the trick?

[] Peter:H []

I actually didn't fully read this, but shouldn't the new custom modulators do the trick?

Hi Melda, though Custom Modulators are exceptionally hilarious...they do not do S&H as requested by this feature request

Use any modulation signal be it per voice or globally and sample the current value at a rate. Then hold until the next "please take sample now" trigger arrives.
The rate could be synchronized to song tempo or it could be a side chain signal exceeding a certain level. Think of an LFO for instance which is in steps mode and ...

Why is this different to steps mode or random per note mode? Becuase they is true random...if the signal which is going to be sampled is a ramp up, then the s&h will be a stairs like signal, where the stair step following is allways higher then the previous...

[DarkStar]

Just so that I'm clear. In this:



If the source (blue) is sampled and held, cyclically, at the positions shown in red then the output level will be that shown in green. Have I understood correctly?

Could this be done, in theory, with an LFO or Follower Modulator with a "S+H" parameter which determines how often (synced to host or in milliseconds) the output level is changed to the source? This could be useful in the "global" modulators in other plug-ins too.

[dmbaer]

If the source (blue) is sampled and held, cyclically, at the positions shown in red then the output level will be that shown in green. Have I understood correctly?

Yes, that's exactly right.

[MeldaProduction]

Ok, so I understand that, but that's pretty much impossible to do, since there is pretty much infinite number of things that could trigger such a thing, and you didn't even tell me if it is per-voice or global. Seems like global, right?

[Whywhy]

It's per voices, the trigger could be a clock or an input via side chain, and the input could be an input or an lfo....
A musical quantizer, a musical scale, could be so useful too....( for quantize the s&h output to musical scales and be able to do generative music )

[DarkStar]

In my simple mind I imagined it as a "timed-latch" within the modulator. It receives the result of the modulation and every time it is triggered it captures that result. It then transmits that result until it is triggered again. A new result is captured and transmitted.

The trigger is timing, either in milliseconds (or frequency) or synced to the DAW tempo (1/32. 1/4 etc).

[] Peter:H []

Just so that I'm clear. In this:



If the source (blue) is sampled and held, cyclically, at the positions shown in red then the output level will be that shown in green. Have I understood correctly?

Could this be done, in theory, with an LFO or Follower Modulator with a "S+H" parameter which determines how often (synced to host or in milliseconds) the output level is changed to the source? This could be useful in the "global" modulators in other plug-ins too.

Many thanks DarkStar - it's so simple to confuse with words. A picture often tells more than a 1000 words... Thanks for "interpreting" my helpless attempts to make myself clear into your picture

Ok, so I understand that, but that's pretty much impossible to do, since there is pretty much infinite number of things that could trigger such a thing, and you didn't even tell me if it is per-voice or global. Seems like global, right?

I mean you have made GenCMod possible...I think it's not as complicated as you might think. I does only need a "sample from" input which is an arbitrary (audio rate) signal and a "sample when trigger" which could be a gate or a signal exceeding a certain level which is interpreted as "gate on"...or as DarkStar explained be synced with song tempo...

[MeldaProduction]

Hehe seems simple to you ). Sending signals from a place to place is easy, when you have a predefined structure, not so here. It could be attached to GenCMod, but the thing is, using it that way will be like a rocket science for most people. Anyways we'll see... It would be possible to sync it to musical units, like every quarter or something though.

[] Peter:H []

Sorry for the bump - I'm still convinced that S&H like discussed in the thread would be a great addition to MSF.

[MeldaProduction]

Well, you'd need to propose a reasonable solution first I'm afraid, since right now I don't see any and considering no free dev time, it's a no go. I proposed some solution with GenCMod, but you didn't reply so..

[DarkStar]

To my simple mind
-- generate the signal in any of the current modulator types, as at present
-- have a new Sampling Rate panel, with an Enable switch, which lets me set how often that signal is sampled (in Hz or Note length)
-- use the sampled value to control the target parameters (this would be used as often as the current modulating value is used)

[] Peter:H []

To my simple mind
-- generate the signal in any of the current modulator types, as at present
-- have a new Sampling Rate panel, with an Enable switch, which lets me set how often that signal is sampled (in Hz or Note length)
-- use the sampled value to control the target parameters (this would be used as often as the current modulating value is used)

Good suggestion, DarkStar. I buy that

As MSF is not realy a modular system in a .. hm, traditional sence it's hard to think of the right thing to do, to a.) fit into the "language" of MSF and be b.) flexible as a sample and hold module in a euro rack where you have two inputs - source and trigger and one output and just connect them with cables to any other source/sink.
Probably on the per voice modulator panel add a new s&h section with two drop downs each. Drop down one let's one chose from any of the other modulators as source. Then in the second drop down one can choose the trigger modulator, i.e. it could be source is a envelope and trigger is an LFO...each time the LFO reaches max signal the source signal is sampled and placed in the hold buffer...does that make sence. But this way it's not possible to use global LFOs as source and per Voice modulators as triggers...hm, it's really hard to think of anything that fits perfectely.

When you wath the ARP2600 S/H Demo video, I have provided in an earlier post...how would you intuitively try to put this into MSF, Melda? I bet you say..."not, at all...no dev time" But let's assume you have time...