Physical Modelling in MSoundFactory
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2596 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK
Really interesting Chandler thank you.
I agree about the range being too small for the semitones parameter in the OSCs. Maybe we should ask Vojteck to double it? I asked a while back already and he was open to it but then I found a kind of work around so I stopped pursuing the idea. Workaround is to increase the octave by 2, then drop the semitone all the way to minimum. Now you have the same pitch, but with double the modulation range (unfortunately only in one direction)
As for EQ in the generator we already have peak and band pass. Is that not enough? What extra do you think is needed?
I agree about the range being too small for the semitones parameter in the OSCs. Maybe we should ask Vojteck to double it? I asked a while back already and he was open to it but then I found a kind of work around so I stopped pursuing the idea. Workaround is to increase the octave by 2, then drop the semitone all the way to minimum. Now you have the same pitch, but with double the modulation range (unfortunately only in one direction)
As for EQ in the generator we already have peak and band pass. Is that not enough? What extra do you think is needed?
Melda Production & United Plugins
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- KVRian
- 821 posts since 11 Aug, 2018 from UE
Very nice thread, perhaps I'm wrong, but I think Chandler speak about the harmonics detune amount, not the master modal filter tune.
You can put 2 or 3 modal in parallels and detune it, but a larger harmonic detune could be easier.
About the modal filter, I would like to have a bigger resonance for the 1 pole.(I'm not sure if it's a 1 or 2or4 poles...)
In the resonator, I think, a compressor in the feedback chain could be useful, same for an all pass filter option, having the possiblity to choose from the actual lp6db or an all pass could be a great addition.
About the comp and the all pass, I have read it, but I don't remember the source, in an article about delay feedback network synthesis.
I will try to experiment in a modular environment and report it here.
You can put 2 or 3 modal in parallels and detune it, but a larger harmonic detune could be easier.
About the modal filter, I would like to have a bigger resonance for the 1 pole.(I'm not sure if it's a 1 or 2or4 poles...)
In the resonator, I think, a compressor in the feedback chain could be useful, same for an all pass filter option, having the possiblity to choose from the actual lp6db or an all pass could be a great addition.
About the comp and the all pass, I have read it, but I don't remember the source, in an article about delay feedback network synthesis.
I will try to experiment in a modular environment and report it here.
Best
YY
YY
- KVRist
- 488 posts since 6 Jan, 2015 from Earth
I already asked him about a bigger Pitch-Modulation-Range a few weeks back... but he didn´t like it that much. After that I also found a workaround for my specific task, but it would be so much better to have a bigger range, because my workaround is only working for SFX but i couldn´t create a playable Instrument with the same Mod-Range.jmg8 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:41 am Really interesting Chandler thank you.
I agree about the range being too small for the semitones parameter in the OSCs. Maybe we should ask Vojteck to double it? I asked a while back already and he was open to it but then I found a kind of work around so I stopped pursuing the idea. Workaround is to increase the octave by 2, then drop the semitone all the way to minimum. Now you have the same pitch, but with double the modulation range (unfortunately only in one direction)
As for EQ in the generator we already have peak and band pass. Is that not enough? What extra do you think is needed?
Please Vojtech, please.
Everyone knows more than I do...
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2596 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK
He actually mentioned both.Whywhy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:49 am Very nice thread, perhaps I'm wrong, but I think Chandler speak about the harmonics detune amount, not the master modal filter tune.
You can put 2 or 3 modal in parallels and detune it, but a larger harmonic detune could be easier.
About the modal filter, I would like to have a bigger resonance for the 1 pole.(I'm not sure if it's a 1 or 2or4 poles...)
In the resonator, I think, a compressor in the feedback chain could be useful, same for an all pass filter option, having the possiblity to choose from the actual lp6db or an all pass could be a great addition.
About the comp and the all pass, I have read it, but I don't remember the source, in an article about delay feedback network synthesis.
I will try to experiment in a modular environment and report it here.
What would an allpass filter do to the sound? Also the delay feedback network synthesis sounds interesting. I would like to hear more. If you find the article please let me know.
Melda Production & United Plugins
Surface Studio = i7, 32gb, SSD.
Windows 11. Bitwig, Reaper, Live. MTotal.
Audiofuse, Adam Audio monitors + sub, iLoud MTM.
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Surface Studio = i7, 32gb, SSD.
Windows 11. Bitwig, Reaper, Live. MTotal.
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Chandlerhimself Chandlerhimself https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=318799
- KVRAF
- 1696 posts since 19 Dec, 2013 from Japan
I'd use white noise through a resonator with an amp sim after it and probably a low pass filter somewhat in there. To be honest though, an ebow sounds a lot like a synth, so I probably wouldn't bother with physical modeling.
Thanks. My thinking is that it would be better to have a dedicated exciter module, but I'll make a new thread about that. My thinking behind the EQ is for a few reasons. I think most people think of EQ in frequencies instead of octaves, so having the octaves there isn't helpful and in fact is less than ideal, because for me the sweep range is sometimes too small. Another problem is when I need more than 1 I end up with an ugly looking confusing mess that is difficult to understand. It just makes things confusing because its hard to remember if you're using the filter as a "synth filter" or for basic EQ tasks, and retracing your thought process wastes lots of time. Also there are times when I want things like high slope filter that isn't available in the generator. For I only really need it for PM stuff, but I imagine when sampling is added it will become even more useful.jmg8 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:41 am Really interesting Chandler thank you.
I agree about the range being too small for the semitones parameter in the OSCs. Maybe we should ask Vojteck to double it? I asked a while back already and he was open to it but then I found a kind of work around so I stopped pursuing the idea. Workaround is to increase the octave by 2, then drop the semitone all the way to minimum. Now you have the same pitch, but with double the modulation range (unfortunately only in one direction)
As for EQ in the generator we already have peak and band pass. Is that not enough? What extra do you think is needed?
My Youtube page https://www.youtube.com/user/GuitarChandler
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2596 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK
So are you wanting just a standard static EQ? currently, the stuff in the generator follows the frequency.
I just spoke to Vojtech and we now have 4 octave up and 4 down for the OSCs, this is good!.
Interested in the dedicated exciter. But I cant help feeling that it will do nothing new that can not already be done, right?
We can already do noise bursts, sine sweeps and samples. So what would it have that would be special?
ALso I wouldnt create a new thread for it, if it is about physical modelling then it belongs here with this discusion.
I just spoke to Vojtech and we now have 4 octave up and 4 down for the OSCs, this is good!.
Interested in the dedicated exciter. But I cant help feeling that it will do nothing new that can not already be done, right?
We can already do noise bursts, sine sweeps and samples. So what would it have that would be special?
ALso I wouldnt create a new thread for it, if it is about physical modelling then it belongs here with this discusion.
Melda Production & United Plugins
Surface Studio = i7, 32gb, SSD.
Windows 11. Bitwig, Reaper, Live. MTotal.
Audiofuse, Adam Audio monitors + sub, iLoud MTM.
Polybrute, Summit, Pro 3, Tempest, Syntakt, AH2.
Ableton Push 2, Roli Seaboard Block.
Surface Studio = i7, 32gb, SSD.
Windows 11. Bitwig, Reaper, Live. MTotal.
Audiofuse, Adam Audio monitors + sub, iLoud MTM.
Polybrute, Summit, Pro 3, Tempest, Syntakt, AH2.
Ableton Push 2, Roli Seaboard Block.
- KVRian
- 821 posts since 11 Aug, 2018 from UE
After some test, I said something wrong, the lp 6db need to be into the feedback loop.
I have chain : a noise burst, to a delay to a allpass filter to a lp6 and send it back to the delay : result : nice dissonant sound, it remind me the comb dissonant mode in zebra made with 4 delays feedback networks.( really great for percussions.)
Here some interesting things :
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xEv1Qybu16k
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~serafin/M12 ... ng_al.html
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~serafin/M120/artweb.html
I have chain : a noise burst, to a delay to a allpass filter to a lp6 and send it back to the delay : result : nice dissonant sound, it remind me the comb dissonant mode in zebra made with 4 delays feedback networks.( really great for percussions.)
Here some interesting things :
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xEv1Qybu16k
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~serafin/M12 ... ng_al.html
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~serafin/M120/artweb.html
Best
YY
YY
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Chandlerhimself Chandlerhimself https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=318799
- KVRAF
- 1696 posts since 19 Dec, 2013 from Japan
jmg8 - Yes a plain standard EQ would be nice. The 4 octave range sounds great. As for the exciter, it wouldn't really be adding anything, but it would just help make the workflow easier. As I said in another thread, it might be better to add it to the noise module. Just a few controls for time and shape then add 2 pannels to define the shape and volume, just like in Drum Synth4NN. After that maybe 2 or 4 filters. Then the noise module could be used for things like clicks, hits, booms, etc, and you wouldn't need to create a mess with tons of modules.
Whywhy - Thanks for the links. I requested an allpass in the resonator too. I've heard it helps to simulate the stiffness of a string, which could be useful for all sorts of different things. I saw a great paper on waveguide synthesis a few months ago, but I can't find it. Anyway I hope a waveguide module comes to MSF in the future.
Whywhy - Thanks for the links. I requested an allpass in the resonator too. I've heard it helps to simulate the stiffness of a string, which could be useful for all sorts of different things. I saw a great paper on waveguide synthesis a few months ago, but I can't find it. Anyway I hope a waveguide module comes to MSF in the future.
My Youtube page https://www.youtube.com/user/GuitarChandler
- KVRist
- 478 posts since 18 Aug, 2006 from Italy
I joined the team, thanks to Vojtech! I must understand now how MSF works and what exactly I can do… Trying to understand where to start.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2596 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK
Oh, you will have fun! It is really quite amazing how much is possible already and it's not got all its bells and whistles yet.
Feel free to ask any questions.
The settings I loaded above can be loaded to give you some stuff to look at.
If you know how to use MXXX routing, then you shouldn't find it too difficult, as it's very similar, just with sound generators as well as effects.
Feel free to ask any questions.
The settings I loaded above can be loaded to give you some stuff to look at.
If you know how to use MXXX routing, then you shouldn't find it too difficult, as it's very similar, just with sound generators as well as effects.
Melda Production & United Plugins
Surface Studio = i7, 32gb, SSD.
Windows 11. Bitwig, Reaper, Live. MTotal.
Audiofuse, Adam Audio monitors + sub, iLoud MTM.
Polybrute, Summit, Pro 3, Tempest, Syntakt, AH2.
Ableton Push 2, Roli Seaboard Block.
Surface Studio = i7, 32gb, SSD.
Windows 11. Bitwig, Reaper, Live. MTotal.
Audiofuse, Adam Audio monitors + sub, iLoud MTM.
Polybrute, Summit, Pro 3, Tempest, Syntakt, AH2.
Ableton Push 2, Roli Seaboard Block.
- KVRist
- 478 posts since 18 Aug, 2006 from Italy
I have never used MXXX (I don't have it, not even the core), but I'll learn. Yes, first thing for me is to read this thread carefully from the beginning and try the settings.
- KVRist
- 478 posts since 18 Aug, 2006 from Italy
Where do you set the ADSR envelope (percussive, sustained, etc…) in an Oscillator?
Is the DrumSampler the only sampler we have to load a true custom sample (not just a waveform) as a generator?
In this case, is there a way to save the custom sample used as a generator together with the resulting device? I would be interested in this.
Is the DrumSampler the only sampler we have to load a true custom sample (not just a waveform) as a generator?
In this case, is there a way to save the custom sample used as a generator together with the resulting device? I would be interested in this.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2596 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK
At the moment there is no way to save the sample and share it with someone else. However you can save the sample location on your own hard drive with the preset. So when you load the sample will load also.
I think this will change in future, not sure.
There will be a full sampler on the way, but for now the drum sampler is just very basic, it was ported over from MDrummer.
It's all modular so there are no envelopes already set up, it all has to be done manually.
So there are a couple of ways to do it. You can modulate the volume control in the OSC itself or add a module (like volume & pan) after the OSC in the signal routing and modulate the volume from there.
I think this will change in future, not sure.
There will be a full sampler on the way, but for now the drum sampler is just very basic, it was ported over from MDrummer.
It's all modular so there are no envelopes already set up, it all has to be done manually.
So there are a couple of ways to do it. You can modulate the volume control in the OSC itself or add a module (like volume & pan) after the OSC in the signal routing and modulate the volume from there.
Melda Production & United Plugins
Surface Studio = i7, 32gb, SSD.
Windows 11. Bitwig, Reaper, Live. MTotal.
Audiofuse, Adam Audio monitors + sub, iLoud MTM.
Polybrute, Summit, Pro 3, Tempest, Syntakt, AH2.
Ableton Push 2, Roli Seaboard Block.
Surface Studio = i7, 32gb, SSD.
Windows 11. Bitwig, Reaper, Live. MTotal.
Audiofuse, Adam Audio monitors + sub, iLoud MTM.
Polybrute, Summit, Pro 3, Tempest, Syntakt, AH2.
Ableton Push 2, Roli Seaboard Block.
- KVRist
- 478 posts since 18 Aug, 2006 from Italy
Thanks! It's a pity not to be able to save samples… (Probably, I say so because I'm much more used to audio processing than to full pure synthesis in my own music.)
Ok, I just would like to try PM of instruments with a different nature… realistic bowed strings, realistic brasses and perhaps realistic woodwinds are what I'm most interested in (when I say "realistic", I mean "plausible", but not "imitations of existing instruments": realistic, but imaginary and not-existing, I mean). I'm much less interested in percussions, plucked strings or keyboards. Anyway, I still have a lot to learn, first.
Ok, I just would like to try PM of instruments with a different nature… realistic bowed strings, realistic brasses and perhaps realistic woodwinds are what I'm most interested in (when I say "realistic", I mean "plausible", but not "imitations of existing instruments": realistic, but imaginary and not-existing, I mean). I'm much less interested in percussions, plucked strings or keyboards. Anyway, I still have a lot to learn, first.
- KVRist
- 478 posts since 18 Aug, 2006 from Italy
Another question: is it possible to delete a device that has already been saved? How?