3rd party preset design for MSoundFactory

[Whywhy]

About the Le version, the "very cheap " Msf player:

My fear : In the vst world, peoples have a lot of choices, and do not spend more than some hours trying a synth.
They miss a lot of "under the wood " functions and make their opinion about this first hours demo tour.
If they open Msf Le, take a generic synth instrument, they will switch to another synth immediately and they will loose all the extraordinary possibilities msf can offer.
I explain:

Let's take the build of an instrument synth :
From a consumer point of view :

- If we build a wavetable synth :

How the Msf Le consumer will select his own wt ?
It could be nice to have a visual representation of the entire table.
It will be hard to offer a lot of modulations choices in the Le version or be a master mp builder !

- Let's build a classic "simple" mono synth:
The mini melda :
2 problems :
First, the 3rd oscillator act like an lfo or an oscillator:
The Msf oscillator do not have a full variable pitch range, we have : +/- 24 st and octaves. Ok, let's do it with an lfo generator, I'm not sure if he has anti aliasing. Edit: bad example, the moog have continuous +-7 and switch Oct.

Second, what about the feedback path, how we do?

Like you see, I play the "devil advocate "!
dont misunderstanding me, I Love msf, but it will be hard to construct some classic generic synths for the player.


Making crazy presets, with some useful macros seams to be more realistic for me than making generic instruments.

For multi samples , it will be ok, but I already see futur customers asking for some scripts capabilities ala falcon or kontakt, or some fantasy png in the ui.

What i try to explain, it's :
we should see Msf like an extraordinary synth, capable of crazy complex sounds, with a high quality engine, making sounds impossible with other synth, but like everything, it's really hard to cover all territory.

Perhaps a presets player version, and a limited edit pages with some generators and a limited matrix could bring more interest at the full version.

[Chandlerhimself]

Whywhy - I agree with some of your points, but I've made a simple mono synth already and you can use the 3rd osc as an LFO if you want. I didn't add this to my instrument because I think it is a bit outdated and there are better ways to do things, but it can be done if you really want. I might end up adding it later if people really want filter fm or FM, but right now I don't really see the point. I agree that the feedback can't be done, although you can easily add distortion.

About the wavetables I agree, but I imagine that might be an incentive for people to upgrade to the full version. I would like a visual representation though.

I think there should be 2 types of presets. Instruments and normal presets. Instruments are self explanatory, but it might be better to allow simple presets with 4-10 controls that are just simple macros. Combine the effects and generator tabs into one and just have basic controls, and XY pad or just a few knobs. Something like what falcon's presets have.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhqBZfPA5kY

IMO you need both types of presets. Instruments will make the LE version more than a simple rompler, and will be of interest to people who don't want simple presets. Simple presets with just a few macros are also good though. They are easier/faster to make and don't require a concept. I like having a concept and making a whole instrument, but there are some sounds that don't really work well with that. Somethings are just simple sounds and can't really be tweaked much. Sometimes those are the most popular sounds though. Personally I'd like to make both, so I think having 2 different concepts would allow for more flexibility.

[Whywhy]

My fears is not about the Msf capacity, all beta testers know the power of this beast, my fears concern the first judgment that people will have when trying the Le version.
Ok, they could try the full demo version too.

But if they test , for example, a mini moog recreation, or a wt synth, they will make immediately a negative judgment based on what they see and don't go further.
The Le version, ala rompler, is a great idea, we should care about the presets, instruments selection.
I remember when Mps was released, a really great sound designer and musician, Samuel Bereczky, If I remember correctly, has done some fantastic presets for the preset action but they was loose into the mass and my first impression listening all this factory presets was, the presets are very average but the sound engine is brillant. Not everybody go in depth and open the back door.
Another thing I wish, MSF will have a multisample engine before the release.
Futur consumers could directly identify Msf Le like a rompler, with complex multi samples at near zero cpu cost.
About mpe into the Le version, we should have access to the global settings controller graph.

[Chandlerhimself]

My fears is not about the Msf capacity, all beta testers know the power of this beast, my fears concern the first judgment that people will have when trying the Le version.
Ok, they could try the full demo version too.

But if they test , for example, a mini moog recreation, or a wt synth, they will make immediately a negative judgment based on what they see and don't go further.
The Le version, ala rompler, is a great idea, we should care about the presets, instruments selection.
I remember when Mps was released, a really great sound designer and musician, Samuel Bereczky, If I remember correctly, has done some fantastic presets for the preset action but they was loose into the mass and my first impression listening all this factory presets was, the presets are very average but the sound engine is brillant. Not everybody go in depth and open the back door.
Another thing I wish, MSF will have a multisample engine before the release.
Futur consumers could directly identify Msf Le like a rompler, with complex multi samples at near zero cpu cost.
About mpe into the Le version, we should have access to the global settings controller graph.

The most people trying the LE version won't ever go further because they don't like to program synths. Showing them that there is more won't really matter because they only care about what the presets sound like and they don't want to tweak, load wavetables, etc. It would be great if all the presets were amazing, but I don't know if that's even possible. People's tastes are too different.

I'd like the multisample engine soon too, but that will delay the release for a long time. Not only will the engine need to be made, but there also needs to be samples for it, which takes a while. If the plan isn't to release it until winter 2019, then I agree they should be added, but if its going to be released sooner, I doubt it can be implemented properly(samples, presets, functions, etc).

I agree with the MPE stuff, but it looks like that is a no go.

[pone]

Considering the undoubtedly high unannounced cost of the synth, I am very much against a [easy screen only] LE version, and would much prefer a [modules can't be changed but can be edited] LE version. Otherwise you'll be at the mercy of your preset designers time which means under no circumstances will it be able to compete with romplers already on the market.
I would also prefer a MXXCore model, as there are too many things i would never use, i.e. a large part of the effects, mdrummer that greatly increases the minimal cost.
In short, the advantage of the modular synth is its modularity. If you take that away, you will be entirely dependent on someone else building the presets
P.S. Feature request: When you [some-modifier-key]-click on a multiparameter’s target parameter it opens the relevant popup window of that parameter, I think it’s really required to be an attractive synth, especially for new users.

[MeldaProduction]

Thanks for the feedback folks, not to some of the concerns:

I think pretty much all synths on the market work on a simple preset basis, at most with a very few macros, that's it. And partly it is because these synths have a specific structure, that cannot really be changed.

With MSF it is very different - you can technically develop synths (or samplers etc. in the future) in it. And this "Instruments" (now active presets) should be more like actual instruments, not just presets. And each of these instruments will have specific presets for itself. This would indeed place us at the mercy of the preset designers, but that's point after all.

I see people out there as 2 kinds:

1) Preset lovers (majority imho) - they just want to open the instrument and check presets and then deal with simple controls. Learning a fully featured synth with all its capabilities is too complex and time consuming for them.

2) Tweakers - they really want the versatility.

Now MSF could be the dream come true for both groups if we play it right! For the tweakers it is obvious why. And the preset lovers will have a single instrument for potentially everything and for every sound there would be quite a solid set of additional controls to shape each instrument with.

Pone: if you mean easy screen, then it is shift+ctrl/cmd I think .

[nichttuntun]

Thanks for the feedback folks, not to some of the concerns:

I think pretty much all synths on the market work on a simple preset basis, at most with a very few macros, that's it. And partly it is because these synths have a specific structure, that cannot really be changed.

With MSF it is very different - you can technically develop synths (or samplers etc. in the future) in it. And this "Instruments" (now active presets) should be more like actual instruments, not just presets. And each of these instruments will have specific presets for itself. This would indeed place us at the mercy of the preset designers, but that's point after all.

I see people out there as 2 kinds:

1) Preset lovers (majority imho) - they just want to open the instrument and check presets and then deal with simple controls. Learning a fully featured synth with all its capabilities is too complex and time consuming for them.

2) Tweakers - they really want the versatility.

Now MSF could be the dream come true for both groups if we play it right! For the tweakers it is obvious why. And the preset lovers will have a single instrument for potentially everything and for every sound there would be quite a solid set of additional controls to shape each instrument with.

Pone: if you mean easy screen, then it is shift+ctrl/cmd I think .

Hi Vojtech and all others,

I want the full program of course as a Complete Bundle user. I like to build from scratch and I like to use my own samples one day when this will be possible. But I guess its interesting for both types you describe. The people who program themselfes too can learn by presets or instruments configurations from more experienced programmers. The more I listen to all of that the more I like the idea to make MSF open for 3rd parties.

I imagine the preset-instrument thing will be similar to systems like MUX modular or the not further supportet AAS Tassman.

It´s all great news for me and I am keen to learn where the journey will go to one day...
Joy to you.