MeldaProduction

Hez · Post by **Hez** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:08 pm

Bump this question, I have wondered this several times myself.

I'd also really like an envelope setting for the copies, so that you can e.g. tail them off or ramp them in over the course of the copied versions akin to a typical feedback control. Not sure whether that's possible as I don't really know how the copies are being generated.

nichttuntun · Post by **nichttuntun** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:34 am

I am not sure about this matter also.

I tried to create an evolving standing grain cloud like an atmospheric padsound (can do in Padshop or Mangle). But I failed with MgranularMB. The presets do not offer this kind of sound option too. I think it´s impossible to do so. What are your experiences?

Despite all the modulation options MgranularMB offers in conclusion I think this is - regarded sounddesign-wise - a very limited VST compared to Padshop or Mangle. What do you think?

Maybe my understanding for this tool is too low yet?

Chandlerhimself · Post by **Chandlerhimself** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:52 am

I'd like an envelope control too, but there is a work around. If you're interested I'll do a video next week.

You can create grain clouds with MG, but it might take a while to figure out if you're used to another program. I know it took me a while. Basically you need to use more copies and set the copy delay high, the copy delay rand above 0%, but low and you also might want to use more than one voice to get a longer/denser cloud.

Chandlerhimself · Post by **Chandlerhimself** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:01 pm

I'll have a video about how to make Grain clouds tomorrow, so if you're interested be on the look out.

buing · Post by **buing** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:53 am

Still waiting for official answer for Grain Count.

nichttuntun · Post by **nichttuntun** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:05 pm

buing wrote:
anton_s wrote:I would appreciate it very much if someone could explain "Grain count" to me in a bit more detail. The manual briefly states:

Grain count
Grain count controls the number of grains kept in use by the voice. Although only one grain is played at each moment, the voice can rearrange the grains in time depending on the Mode.

I want to know clearly too, anyone explain please?
I've experienced many times about grain count but still don't know how it works exactly
F1 Key doesn't explain enough.

I think you can imagine better when you think about a sequence. An event is triggered and tied to one voice, a random grain generating sequence for example. This event is then played and hold for as long as the grain count counts. After that count a new sequence is triggered. No warranty

But just try it and use your ears to judge what you like. The rest is mathematics you don't really need to know in the last detail.

in the end what really matters is the fit in your mix. Too much thinking and calculating can eliminate creativity.

DamianOnline · Post by **DamianOnline** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:52 pm

I have no answer for granular count. But if someone didn't figure out how to use pitch sequencer I can help.

To pitch sequencer to work you must make sure RANDOM PITCH knob is turned to +48 (or any desire value, can't be 0 ).
Than go and experiment with other values in pitch sequencer window.

Faiky · Post by **Faiky** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:29 pm

MGRANULIZERMB.jpg

I've been trying to visualize how it works. I'm not sure if it's completely right.

I also find MGranularMB limited and it is definitely not the most versatile garnulizer.

SaltyGrain (KTGranulator), is my favorite granulator. It is cleverly designed so that you directly understand what you are doing there. I miss these functions and wish them to me also for MGranularMB:

- random amplitude
- random overlapping/gate (density), so not only crossfading
- attack and decay per grain, so not only crossfading ("scew" in SaltyGrain)
- random delay (so not only for copys, but for each grain count)
- Feedback! The heart for granular sound design. For the clouds and much more sfx.

Faiky · Post by **Faiky** » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:32 pm

Okay, i tested it, but i was completle wrong. i found out that the grain repeat will last longer, but nothing more.

What's also odd is that i can't get a setting that only has one grain repeat. It is always repeated at least 2-3 times. It must be somehow possible to change a setting to 1:1. From there I want to increase delay, pitch etc.. But MGranularMB works totally untransparent and unexpected, especially when it comes to the named grain count.

Maybe not everything has to be changed, but a module like SaltyGrain I would love to see

!

Faiky · Post by **Faiky** » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:04 pm

I'd like to bump this thread again. Isn't there an exact explanation what grain count does? Is it just a grain extension?

vectorwarrior · Post by **vectorwarrior** » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:37 pm

I agree, grain count and copies are unclear in how they are differentiated. Just checked the help:

Copies
Copies controls the number of voices generated using the same parameters.

Grain count
Grain count controls the number of grains kept in use by the voice. Although only one grain is played at each moment, the voice can rearrange the grains in time depending on the Mode.

Does 'mode' mean 'Transformation'? So if you have transformation set to 'disabled' what does the grain count setting do?

I'd agree that MGranular is one of the weaker melda effects and one of the few processes that I find myself looking elsewhere for.

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:57 pm

Well, hopefully there will be time to improve that at some point, but not now. Also the engine is really focused on optimizations, so adding various stuff is rather problematic...

nichttuntun · Post by **nichttuntun** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:56 am

I have not a big problem with it but it's a bit dated, compared to CrusherX or Glitchmachines stuff or KAIVO from Madrona Labs or the new Padshop update or even Quanta from the toy-plugin-company Audio Damage. MGranular is really adding huge latency based delays. I get good results out of it but the latency isn't nice if the effect should set in immediately, it's unusable. I'd love to see an update some day cause it's a fantastic thing being able to work with granular within the MXXX or MSoundfactory environment. Cheers

P.S. forgot the great Granular OSCs in Avenger and Biotek2...

PPS. I have high hopes for the Sampler-module in MSF...thats getting better and better and I think it will be a fantastic module in the end. And I can imagine that an additional grain-feature or a completele new granular-module for MSF will be very possible in some future days

Faiky · Post by **Faiky** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:49 pm

Yes that's correct, the latency is added to the grain length.
I guess that a grain is first recorded and then resampled and played back.
In the best case the plugin would pre-calculate the time difference of the resampling grain and the original. Then this difference would be the latency.
But since it would upset the whole mechanics, this will unfortunately not be an option, as I estimate.

nichttuntun wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:56 am I'd love to see an update some day cause it's a fantastic thing being able to work with granular within the MXXX or MSoundfactory environment.

I absolutely agree! It's one of the most important sound design tools for me. It would be a dream if something like MTurboGranulizer would be planned. With the possibility of own algorithms.
It's hard to imagine what effects you could achieve if you could add per grain filter, tremolo, pitch and formant shift, allpass and all the stuff from MTurboReverb. With feedback possibility and grain feedback (feedback for a grain itself). With individual envelopes and time intervals.
Granulizer, the secret weapons.

MeldaProduction

KVR Audio

MGranularMB: Grain count and Cross-fade