Hi Vojtech,
whenever I start a mixing projekt I have to set the input gain of any channel to achieve a propper gain for the insert effects. I set all channels to unity gain and let the song run through. After that I looked at the channels peak level and adjust the input gain to get a maximum peak of -18 dbFS.
Depending on the number of channels this can be very time consuming and boring. Since it is a pure mathmatical task I wonder if it can be eased with a nice "M"-Plugin? The plugin has to detect the maximum peak of the channel when in "capture"-mode. By hitting an "adjust"-button it will raise or lower the gain.
I have experimeted with HorNet AutoGain but that only working with RMS and it is not raising the gain if it is to low.
Maybe this funktionality can be added to another plugin like MAutoVolume or MUtility.
What do you think?
Regards
Andreas
Automatic gainstaging plugin?
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MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122 - KVRAF
- 14019 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
Hi Andreas,
forgive me for asking, but WHY? I mean, sure, it's generally a good rule not to exceed 0dB, but otherwise I don't see a reason to be pedantic about having everything at -18dB. In many cases if would only "mess up" what you'd expect - e.g. mixing drums. At least it seems to me.
forgive me for asking, but WHY? I mean, sure, it's generally a good rule not to exceed 0dB, but otherwise I don't see a reason to be pedantic about having everything at -18dB. In many cases if would only "mess up" what you'd expect - e.g. mixing drums. At least it seems to me.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 5 posts since 25 Feb, 2005
Thanks for the fast replay.
When I get a multitrack session from a client I import it to my DAW (in my case Cubase 7.5).
The next thing is a roughmix (or staticmix) without any plugins where every track will be leveled out in the mix.
After the static mix the fader positions are all over the place, because the gain of the recorded tracks are different.
But the faders are not linear and have their best resolution at unity level and thats where I want to use them.
The -18dB ist simply a good starting point for me and gives my enough headroom. The value should be adjustable of course and maybe the option not to raise but only lower the volume to avoid clipping also.
Regards
Andreas
When I get a multitrack session from a client I import it to my DAW (in my case Cubase 7.5).
The next thing is a roughmix (or staticmix) without any plugins where every track will be leveled out in the mix.
After the static mix the fader positions are all over the place, because the gain of the recorded tracks are different.
But the faders are not linear and have their best resolution at unity level and thats where I want to use them.
The -18dB ist simply a good starting point for me and gives my enough headroom. The value should be adjustable of course and maybe the option not to raise but only lower the volume to avoid clipping also.
Regards
Andreas
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MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122
- KVRAF
- 14019 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
Ok, but the peak level is not really relevant. I'd understand if you'd want some loudness estimate, so that all tracks start with the same loudness. Anyway I'm afraid I'd probably don't go for this idea. The "mixing revolution thing", which is planned, would make this "useless".
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MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122
- KVRAF
- 14019 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
Thank you! 
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- KVRian
- 509 posts since 10 Aug, 2004
I'll second Andreas' request. I've been using Hornet's VU Meter plugin as an insert in front of my Nebula instances and it works pretty well (but, not perfect). Might be a cool feature to add to something like MLoudnessAnalyzer? Or, maybe it's own plugin? Anyway, I think you'd do a proper job of it. 
FWIW, it automatically adjusts the channel's trim to a set RMS level like 0VU = -18dBfs, etc. Would be cool to be able to adjust that reference point up or down, too. Really comes in handy for Nebula presets that are optimized for different RMS input levels… Anyway, thanks and hope you'll consider it.
FWIW, it automatically adjusts the channel's trim to a set RMS level like 0VU = -18dBfs, etc. Would be cool to be able to adjust that reference point up or down, too. Really comes in handy for Nebula presets that are optimized for different RMS input levels… Anyway, thanks and hope you'll consider it.
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- Banned
- 1181 posts since 24 Jun, 2014 from Giza Plateau
I like the idea as well and i dont get what you are talking about - Can you get a bit more specific please? I mean "mixing revolution thing" is planned? Never heard of it.MeldaProduction wrote:Ok, but the peak level is not really relevant. I'd understand if you'd want some loudness estimate, so that all tracks start with the same loudness. Anyway I'm afraid I'd probably don't go for this idea. The "mixing revolution thing", which is planned, would make this "useless".
PS. Since when is Gainstaging not important?
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MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122
- KVRAF
- 14019 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
Gain staging is very important, but not this way really, this is the way it was relevant in analog era, which is just ending whether you like it or not 
. In digital you can technically ignore the peak meters at all, except for the master channel. BUT it's generally advised to keep everything below 0dB, because many processors just work different way above 0dB, may contain feedback safety clippers etc. But why would anyone want to set the peak level to some predefined value, that's beyond me... Loudness, yes, that would make a reasonable starting point for mixing, but peak level... Imagine a pretty low level guitar with a click at the end, because somebody touched the microphone accidentaly...and you have a totally different peak level...
"Mixing revolution" - it's planned, and it's a secret now, just be aware it will happen and will change the way we mix
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. In digital you can technically ignore the peak meters at all, except for the master channel. BUT it's generally advised to keep everything below 0dB, because many processors just work different way above 0dB, may contain feedback safety clippers etc. But why would anyone want to set the peak level to some predefined value, that's beyond me... Loudness, yes, that would make a reasonable starting point for mixing, but peak level... Imagine a pretty low level guitar with a click at the end, because somebody touched the microphone accidentaly...and you have a totally different peak level..."Mixing revolution" - it's planned, and it's a secret now, just be aware it will happen and will change the way we mix
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- KVRian
- 509 posts since 10 Aug, 2004
That's an extreme case, isn't it? And, I'd imagine that microphone bumps/clicks would be edited out of a mix, anyway, wouldn't they? At least I would edit them out…MeldaProduction wrote:Imagine a pretty low level guitar with a click at the end, because somebody touched the microphone accidentaly...and you have a totally different peak level...
An auto gain plug that could adjust a track's volume to a calibrated RMS level can be a very useful thing. That's why I use the Hornet VU Meter plug. If you made something that could do the same thing, I'd replace the Hornet in an instant… Just saying.
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MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122
- KVRAF
- 14019 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
Yes! I agree! With RMS or loudness approximate it would make sense. But the OP was talking about peak level and that doesn't make sense at all.
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- KVRian
- 1274 posts since 23 Sep, 2008 from Germany
The mixing revolution is still in progress? We're at half of 2016. I'd like to go with Melda all the way, but sometimes I take the "easier" way with the old fashioned analog emulation plugins, which prefer a RMS level of 0db=-18dBu. Why I do this? Somebody decided for me to attend saturation/harmonics in a "musical" way to my audio signal. I know Meldas saturation plugins can do this also and much more flexible, but I'm afraid of turning the wrong knobs. Before I use something I don't understand I don't do it.
Let the mixing revolution become true!? But this sounds like after release many plugins and ways of mixing become obsolete?!
Let the mixing revolution become true!? But this sounds like after release many plugins and ways of mixing become obsolete?!
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- KVRian
- 1274 posts since 23 Sep, 2008 from Germany
Me again. Mixing Revolution sounds great and huge. But what do you understand about it Vojtech?
For me it's getting better results, quicker and much easier way then today. I don't know if we to talk and think in frequencies anyomore? Mote about colors of sounds?! Like warm, cold, bright... sounding?
What's your approach to a mixing revolution Vojtech?
I think everybody has it's own opinion ob this.
For me it's getting better results, quicker and much easier way then today. I don't know if we to talk and think in frequencies anyomore? Mote about colors of sounds?! Like warm, cold, bright... sounding?
What's your approach to a mixing revolution Vojtech?
I think everybody has it's own opinion ob this.
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MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122
- KVRAF
- 14019 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
Hehe, it's still in progress and it will take a lot more time I'm afraid Svama . And I cannot reveal anything yet .
. And I cannot reveal anything yet .-
- KVRist
- 107 posts since 9 Jan, 2010
Yet one more thread about an auto loudness plugin, and Vojtech even said MAutoLoudness makes sense! This is easily the 1000th thread I've seen about this feature request. Why can't you just add this feature to MLoudnessAnalyzer?
In reference to the mixing revolution, does it have anything to do with visual mixing, like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxoxCpYCE-c
Why can't you just add this feature to MLoudnessAnalyzer?In reference to the mixing revolution, does it have anything to do with visual mixing, like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxoxCpYCE-c
Last edited by Lotus9 on Mon May 09, 2016 11:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
