Midi Looper Support Thread

[David]

I got one of the midi arp instruments in the group buy, but have had no luck making it work in Logic or mainstage.

Does anyone know if any of these Kontakt sequencers/loopers/arps work with the apple stuff? I can't load Kontakt as a midi effect (doesn't appear as an option), and if I load it as an instrument, I'm pretty sure there's no way to send the midi to another instrument (even another Kontakt instrument in the same stack), despite having the options to 'send midi to the outside world' set up correctly within Kontakt. I'm aware there may be options by routing midi out of logic somehow and back in using some tricks, but I don't really want to do that.

I solved the Logic MIDI problem initially by running Kontakt as a vst in another sequencer (Live) and sent the output back to Logic with the IAC driver. (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=495526) Eventually I bought BlueCat's Patchwork plugin, which can run as an AU MIDI FX and host VSTs, sending MIDI out to the track it's on; works great; $100. Plogue Bidule can do this also I've heard.

Another good thread on the AU MIDI FX topic:

viewtopic.php?t=483854

You can also run Kontakt as a stand-alone app and send to Logic using IAC, but I never could get that working as well as when using Live to host it.

A cheaper Mac DAW that can run VSTs is Reaper, which just like Live, can both send to out to Logic and easily send Kontakt MIDI to other plugins it's hosting, skipping Logic altogether. But when you gotta have Sculpture or Alchemy, either will do them well, too.

[David]

The other part of the Logic problem, of course, is how to CAPTURE the output, not just hear it, as MIDI data. RIght now, all the track with a MIDI FX records is the input that triggers it, like the notes you're holding for the Arp to transform…but you don't get the arp output, just the held notes.

There used to be a perfect solution, still working great if you grabbed it before the source disappeared (anybody know that story?). It was called Audio CR MIDI FX freeze, a MIDI FX whose sole function was to capture the output of other MIDI FX for dragging into a track. Hopefully somebody else will soon take on the task of replacing it (which should be Apple's, IMO!), but in the meantime, there's the old option of looping the output out of Logic and back in via the IAC driver, using an "external Instrument".

The advantage of running Kontakt or other VSTs with MIDI outs in other DAWs or stand-alone and using the IAC driver to get it into Logic is mainly that this allows the full capture of the MIDI stream automatically, no further capturing device or strategy needed. (And of course other more MIDI-capable DAWs can also capture the full MIDI stream as is already…)

However elegant the solutions (my favorite is when AU plugins already come with MIDI FX versions, as does Reaktor for example; I WISH Kontakt would follow suit!), the whole issue seems to me a big mess, easily solved by Apple if they just would BOTHER.

[someone called simon]

Thanks for that detailed response David!

[Protocol_b]

Kontakt runs in the free Reaktor Player midi fx. That will output midi to the instrument you place in your Logic track. Avoid the IAC bus like the plague, it is a false solution. The timing is terrible and the midi feeds back into your source driving it into a loop. When it comes to flexible midi routing Apple is a joke. Said by a 15 year Logic/Mainstage user that left the plantation.

[David]

Kontakt runs in the free Reaktor Player midi fx. That will output midi to the instrument you place in your Logic track. Avoid the IAC bus like the plague, it is a false solution. The timing is terrible and the midi feeds back into your source driving it into a loop. When it comes to flexible midi routing Apple is a joke. Said by a 15 year Logic/Mainstage user that left the plantation.

Intriguing idea, but—How exactly does Kontakt load into Reaktor? Would LOVE to see/do that—details please!

otoh, IAC is MY favorite thing about working with MIDI on a Mac (since before Reaktor was born). NEVER had a loop problem. But I admit I'm rarely needing to match timings scrupulously in my own work, and this IS the most frequent complaint about IAC that I've seen.

So, obviously, experiences, set-ups, and requirements differ. Best to try it for oneself:)
Until Apple stops with the Logic/AU/MIDI jokes and joins the real world.

[David]

OK, completely baffled:

Just closed one Logic project using MIDI Looper fine. Instead of just swapping in a new instrument, decided to start with a previously saved project, different instrument/FX set up with HG's ArpStream, which also was still working great.

But after loading MIDI Looper instead, that's not working at all. No saved presets, nor factory ones, nor saved snaps will play back anything. Recording seems to work (and data shows up in the Seq Edit panel) but nothing happens when selecting, no numbers roll in the field just below the SEL button. All setting appear to be the same as in the working project, which if I recall that, is still working with all recorded patterns still there and recallable. And back in the broken one, other HG MIDI libraries, like ArpStream, load and then work fine…

So, what am I doing wrong in MIDI Looper with the new instance? Help?!?

TIA!

EDIT:
Repeatable problem, fixable by re-launching Patchwork and loading MLooper to start with, rather than simply switching to it from ArpStream in the existing instance of Patchwork…fwiw.

[Musical Gym]

Maybe try going back to project that works and save .nki with new name.
Load the one with new name into a different project and see.
Just a guess on my part.
Edit: Just saw your edit after I responded.

[David]

Thanks Gym; guess this is actually a very minor problem, if one at all, with either Patchwork, or in some weird way with loading MLooper after ArpStream, easily fixed, once you know not to waste any time thinking that you're doing something wrong or not getting how MLooper works.

Which I LOVE, btw, more so the more I use it! I find it by far the most easily personalized and performable of my various MIDI FX, whether homegrown or not. Thank you Andrew!

It works esp. well with Logic's Transposer after it, that being modulated w/Modulator, to give the loops endless variation…

[Musical Gym]

Sounds good. Hopefully Andy will be back in action soon.

[David]

Well, problem is back: Now trying the Looper in Live, same as reported before. All other HG and other Kontakt MIDI FX working fine, but with the Looper loaded nothing happens. The MIDI Control Keys work to select, but nothing rolls in the field below the SEL button, no matter whether I'm switching from another Instrument or loading the Looper fresh. Anybody getting this to work? I assume yes, as nobody else is complaining…??

If I set up the MIDI From channel in Live to send out the IAC driver, it works fine. WHAT am I missing!?!

EdIT: Just installed Kontakt 6, and all seems to now be working—Yay!!
(Random still only working on and applying to the first col for both loops and variations…)
So, no help to offer those still using 5, sorry:( Assuming there ARE some who're having problems, too…?

[Musical Gym]

General question: Has anyone gotten any of the randomizers to work on recorders 2-7 or variations 2-7? Number 1 only for each works for me.

[David]

General question: Has anyone gotten any of the randomizers to work on recorders 2-7 or variations 2-7? Number 1 only for each works for me.

Same here, they all only work ON #1, not on the one they're selected on.

[Musical Gym]

Thanks much for verifying.

[Astralp]

So sorry everyone, I've been ill for the last couple of weeks and I'm just getting back on track. I've fixed the Randomizers for the next release. I'll investigate what David is talking about.

[Astralp]

So just to clear, correct me if I'm wrong:

When you save a snap or an nka, the recorded notes are saved, too, presumably until you have more than 30,000 notes, right? (Such as those in the two Factory .nka's)

Assuming I'm not completely wrong, could you save these files elsewhere to get around that limit, or maybe save another copy…? I'm just being OCD about this, no doubt after a few more sessions I'll realize I don't NEED to save everything, but for now…

The 30,000 refers to the undo History which is never saved permanently. The Sequences are saved in the project or in the .nka which is 128x8 notes maximum per pattern.