CMPlay

Official support for: muon-software.com
Kyran
KVRian
801 posts since 2 Apr, 2006

Post Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:19 am

Muon Software Ltd wrote:
However, with Sonar 7 on my Vista 32-bit machine, the samples loaded into RAM never clear. Even if you specifically select "delete from memory", the samples stay loaded into RAM. So, if you audition a lot of patches, you start to run low on RAM. Imagine my shock when my 4GB of RAM machine told me there was no space in memory! Needless to say, this has made it unuseable for me. This might not be true for everybody.
CMplay is based on our Tachyon Engine which is very stable, well-tested and used in numerous commercial products. It is more likely that the samples *are* clearing from RAM but something else is at fault that might be specific to Sonar 7. Any chance of a screenshot of that error message? have you run Resource Monitor while loading/unloading patches?
This also happens in ext2: the memory usage keeps on growing if you switch patches, it doesn't seem to unload them. I checked this using the windows taskmanager.

I find browsing patches a bit awkward too: they're all three submenu's deep for no reason (there's nothing else at the top levels)

Muon Software Ltd
KVRian
1462 posts since 21 Nov, 2000

Post Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:24 am

This also happens in ext2: the memory usage keeps on growing if you switch patches, it doesn't seem to unload them. I checked this using the windows taskmanager.
The patches are only unloaded if you explictly unload them or load another patch over the top. If you switch patches (maybe you mean multis?) the patches won't necessarily be unloaded. This is by design.

Kind regards
Dave

Kyran
KVRian
801 posts since 2 Apr, 2006

Post Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:13 am

Muon Software Ltd wrote:
This also happens in ext2: the memory usage keeps on growing if you switch patches, it doesn't seem to unload them. I checked this using the windows taskmanager.
The patches are only unloaded if you explictly unload them or load another patch over the top. If you switch patches (maybe you mean multis?) the patches won't necessarily be unloaded. This is by design.

Kind regards
Dave
I load tcp files in the same slot each time, so I think I load a new patch over another one. I'd make a screenshot of the button I make, but I don't have CMPlay availlable here: I press the button next to the number in the row with patches you can load.

Muon Software Ltd
KVRian
1462 posts since 21 Nov, 2000

Post Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:32 am

It could be that the host has some undo functionality and is caching the plugins chunk. However by default CMplay shouldn't be storing samples within the chunk - check the options screen and make sure "include samples in saved patches" isn't checked.

Otherwise I doubt such behaviour would be host-specific and I wouldn't expect it to be different from one host to another.

Kind regards
Dave
Muon Software Ltd
www.muon-software.com

BERFAB
KVRAF
6061 posts since 25 Mar, 2004

Post Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:52 am

Well, yes, the patch navigation on CMPlay is a bit difficult. However, just a few short months ago, before CMPlay, you had to load and map any of the disc samples you wanted to use by yourself. Talk about a pain in the neck!

So, yeah, I think CMPlay is pretty cool, especially for the disc samples offered. Oh, and it's FREE, right? Remember? Free? :tu:

So, if you can't afford Kontakt or Sampletank or a used copy of Giga, you're going to have to put up with some very minor inconveniences. But you're Spartans! You can do it.

Cheers
-B
Berfab
So many plugins, so little time...

jsp1979
KVRAF
3146 posts since 7 Aug, 2008

Post Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:18 am

Muon Software Ltd wrote:
However, with Sonar 7 on my Vista 32-bit machine, the samples loaded into RAM never clear. Even if you specifically select "delete from memory", the samples stay loaded into RAM. So, if you audition a lot of patches, you start to run low on RAM. Imagine my shock when my 4GB of RAM machine told me there was no space in memory! Needless to say, this has made it unuseable for me. This might not be true for everybody.
CMplay is based on our Tachyon Engine which is very stable, well-tested and used in numerous commercial products. It is more likely that the samples *are* clearing from RAM but something else is at fault that might be specific to Sonar 7. Any chance of a screenshot of that error message? have you run Resource Monitor while loading/unloading patches?

Kind regards
Dave
Muon Software Ltd
www.muon-software.com
Thanks for the response. I've been following the loading and unloading of patches using the Resource Monitor.

As for screenshots, ask and you shall receive.

With a blank Sonar project and CM Play loaded (no patch loaded yet):

Image

After loading one sound:

Image

Now, after unloading the sound using "delete patch from memory":

Image

Next two pics show loading another patch and "deleting it from memory":

Image

Image

After loading and deleting from memory several patches, I have this:

Image

After closing Sonar, the RAM usage over time looked like the image below. Note that the only activity I did was load CMPlay and then load and delete from memory several patches (slide to the right to see the difference).

Image

So, Windows reports that those samples are not deleted from memory. So, if I go through some patches in CM Play with a project that has other samples loaded into RAM, I get problems. Note that if I delete CMPlay from the Synth Rack in Sonar, the RAM DOES clear.

I'm open for suggestions. I'd like CMPlay to work correctly because I do think it's a nice program, but I don't intend to keep my eye on the Task Manager while I'm working on a project.

Thanks for asking about the problem. I appreciate your attention.

--JSP

relayer
KVRist
159 posts since 5 Jan, 2003

Post Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:05 am

jsp1979,

Thanks for taking the time to document the CM Play problem. Hopefully that gives Dave from Muon enough information to fix it. I like your approach of not just complaining about a problem, but giving the developer the info they might need to fix the problem.

Muon Software Ltd
KVRian
1462 posts since 21 Nov, 2000

Post Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:13 am

Thanks for that, good stuff.

I'll investigate and report my findings in a couple of days. Any chance of a mod moving this thread to the Muon forum?

Kind regards
Dave
Muon Software Ltd
www.muon-software.com

Muon Software Ltd
KVRian
1462 posts since 21 Nov, 2000

Post Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:14 am

Mods, thanks for moving the thread.

I've done a little work on this issue this morning, and this does appear to be host dependent which indicates perhaps the problem is more complex (and less general) than the poster may realise.

Here's my memory usage log from performing a similar test:-

Image

As you can see, the memory is correctly released after each load/delete cycle. What I need to do next is test the exact configuration posted (vista32/sonar 7) and I'll let you know when I've got those results.

Kind regards
Dave
Muon Software Ltd
www.muon-software.com
Last edited by Muon Software Ltd on Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sepheritoh
KVRAF
2401 posts since 29 Dec, 2002 from In the dark

Post Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:36 am

CMPlay is really a great program. Thanks.

I've used it a number of times now in my compositions. It is a huge improvement over the 404 and sure beats mapping samples individually. As everybody already mentioned, the biggest problem is the patch browsing system and some improvement there would be really appreciated.

I also want to add a 'yes please' to the idea of exporting sfz files. If there is no reason for me to change or tweak the patches I will use CMPLay and not bother to import into another sampler and go through the pains of mapping samples - but sometime I want to make use of Dimention pro or Rapture to mangle the sound a bit.

Muon Software Ltd
KVRian
1462 posts since 21 Nov, 2000

Post Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:46 am

As everybody already mentioned, the biggest problem is the patch browsing system and some improvement there would be really appreciated.
The biggest improvement that could be made would be to persuade CM to use the tagging features so patches could be browsed with sensible categories instead of their folders on disk. I'll have to ask them to see what they think, I can't promise anything unfortunately.

In the meantime there is something that can be easily done to make things better - just rearrange the folders containing the TCP files, rename them as you see fit and then rescan. Most of the problems with the browser relate to how CM are structuring the folders on disk. Also, CMplay doesn't care where the samples are relative to the TCP files, you can put them anywhere you want so long as you add the root paths to samples on the Options screen.

Kind regards
Dave
Muon Software Ltd
www.muon-software.com

Kyran
KVRian
801 posts since 2 Apr, 2006

Post Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:28 am

The same memory problem occurs with energyXT2 (on windows xp, didn't test on vista yet)

Muon Software Ltd
KVRian
1462 posts since 21 Nov, 2000

Post Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:57 am

The same memory problem occurs with energyXT2
Noted - but I'm pretty sure its related to the host doing something wrong rather than the OS itself. I'm on the case.

Kind regards
Dave
Muon Software Ltd
www.muon-software.com

jsp1979
KVRAF
3146 posts since 7 Aug, 2008

Post Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:24 am

Muon Software Ltd wrote:Mods, thanks for moving the thread.

I've done a little work on this issue this morning, and this does appear to be host dependent which indicates perhaps the problem is more complex (and less general) than the poster may realise.

<snip>

As you can see, the memory is correctly released after each load/delete cycle. What I need to do next is test the exact configuration posted (vista32/sonar 7) and I'll let you know when I've got those results.

Kind regards
Dave
Muon Software Ltd
www.muon-software.com
Thanks Dave.

I do realize that it might be host specific or even 'my computer' specific. I certainly wasn't trying to suggest that everyone would have the same problems that I was having. Just sharing my experience thus far with CMPlay.

Thanks again for looking into the problem.

--JSP

Muon Software Ltd
KVRian
1462 posts since 21 Nov, 2000

Post Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:28 am

No worries, I'll let you know what I find out.

Kind regards
Dave
Muon Software Ltd
www.muon-software.com

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