Recommended HARDWARE FLANGER for metallic percussion fx sounds

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Doug1978
KVRAF
2031 posts since 19 Jun, 2011 from a world of Black Thunder chocs

Post Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:31 pm

Cool - many thanks Vurt for the advice about trying out that delay trick. I'll give it a go (in addition to a tasty hardware pedal!).
:)

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vurt
addled muppet weed
55012 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Recommended HARDWARE FLANGER for metallic percussion fx sounds

Post Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:34 pm

:tu:
have fun.

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
13045 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Recommended HARDWARE FLANGER for metallic percussion fx sounds

Post Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:38 pm

I use this trick all the time.

At 3:50 in this vid you’ll see the times that correspond to frequencies.

https://youtu.be/bXu3kOJ9Cj4
Last edited by Mushy Mushy on Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
25228 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Re: Recommended HARDWARE FLANGER for metallic percussion fx sounds

Post Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:39 pm

Using a delay as vurt suggested is the way I would go about creating that "metallic" sound. I have an old Vesta DIG-1 rack delay that's amazing for that sort of stuff. You can get some awesome feedback loops going with it too ... great for dubby stuff.

Doug1978
KVRAF
2031 posts since 19 Jun, 2011 from a world of Black Thunder chocs

Re: Recommended HARDWARE FLANGER for metallic percussion fx sounds

Post Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:38 am

Brilliant - thanks Mushy for the interesting and useful delay / pitch link and the video. I'll certainly be trying that out :)

Excellent - thanks TCC for the tip and headsup about that dub device. I checked out one of that Vesta's DIG sister dub boxes (I couldn't find a vid on the DIG-1) on YT and they certainly sound a hell of a lot of fun!

Cheers :tu:

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thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
25228 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Re: Recommended HARDWARE FLANGER for metallic percussion fx sounds

Post Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:16 am

Hey Doug, I just checked, and its a DIG-410 that I have ... :oops:

You can hear it in use here (especially on the last two tracks) ...
https://marineville.bandcamp.com/album/jazzweed

Doug1978
KVRAF
2031 posts since 19 Jun, 2011 from a world of Black Thunder chocs

Re: Recommended HARDWARE FLANGER for metallic percussion fx sounds

Post Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:26 pm

Cool - no problem. Sounds like a great unit!
Excellent album tracks too, particularly the jazzier ones (no.5 had glimpses of Zappa/Coltrane/Wyatt in their madder moments!).
Cheers :)

JCJR
KVRAF
2896 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN

Re: Recommended HARDWARE FLANGER for metallic percussion fx sounds

Post Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:30 pm

Hi Doug1978. A couple of ideas about your software flanging SoundCloud test file above. Please don't expect authoritative opinion I'm just some random guy. Ears might be getting too old to properly judge that kind of sound.

For one thing your software flanging has an aliased edge. Maybe my ears misidentify some other distortion mis-classifying it as aliasing. Maybe that flanger plugin delay line intentionally distorts trying to emulate a bbd delay chip and then you get the emulated distortion buildup when you crank flanger feedback resonance, and poorly/cheaply implemented digital distortion almost inevitably leads to aliasing. Or some other theory including that possibly my ears are too fried to judge. :)

Aside from the aliasing (or whatever it is) that flanger delay line is probably mixed too bright, too HiFi, along with the dry signal.

Especially bbd analog flanger delays were usually severely limited in high freq response. Thoush early digital delays were brighter and cleaner, most early digital delays rolled off the crispiest highs as well. I had an old DigiTech rack dig delay was foolish to ever sell or give away. It was somewhat "mellow" on highs but it LFO modulated really smooth and made fabulous flange, chorus and echo-chorus.

If you have a flanger plugin or a versatile echo-chorus plugin that lets you set the delay down in the ballpark of 0.1 to 10 ms. If the plugin will let you roll off the delay line high freq down to maybe as low as 4000 or even 2000 Hz. Maybe it has a delay line HF Damp knob.

Then mix the delay 50/50 with the dry. If there is a control for it, you could also try invert mixing wet with dry. If the plugin has an invert switch or lets you use either positive or negative gain. Not positive or negative dBs, which are another thang entirely.

When you invert mix the wet with the dry, what were peaks become notches and what were notches become peaks just like Superman's Bizzarro Universe!

That ought to give you a purt dramatic mellow flange before you even start trying to crank the feedback resonance.

Doug1978
KVRAF
2031 posts since 19 Jun, 2011 from a world of Black Thunder chocs

Re: Recommended HARDWARE FLANGER for metallic percussion fx sounds

Post Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:30 am

Hi JCJR - many thanks for the excellent and very kind explanation. Really good conment - and I'm certainly a fan of rolling off the top end generally for metallic sounds as they tend to get way too harsh/brittle for my liking!

Tbh, I'm really trying to have a stab at what Plastikman did with his track "Elektrix" - not just the open tone of the percussive element (as per the OP) which I can get somewhat close to, but really more the depth/feel of that hardware 'watery' / 'metal' / possibly phaser effect which you can hear on the record and I struggle to replicate with my plugins.

Ultimately I take the point (perhaps thought by others) that there's little reason to identically copy a Plastikman track from 25 years ago. But it's that particular sound - perhaps due to chosen sample, perhaps due to fx treatment - that I'm intrigued to know, if only then I might be able to use it sometimes in my own original songs (which range from 1970s style dub reggae to dubious dnb and happy hardcore!).

Many thanks again :tu:

AnX
KVRAF
5779 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: Recommended HARDWARE FLANGER for metallic percussion fx sounds

Post Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:34 am

don't really use them for that myself, but i do remember having a really cheap crappy one years ago that was quite good for that, used to run drum machines thru it. Might have been a Roktek or something, don't have it any more tho...

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