How do you record and jam with your synth?

[thecontrolcentre]

There are mixers available with multi tracking over USB, but they can be expensive. How many ins and outs do you need?

[BONES]

How about a USB mixer? There are some pretty decent budget price ones available from Behringer.

Thanks a lot!
Yeah I thought about them a lot of times... but I think the audio quality is not that great?
I’d like to have audiophile quality:)

Forget about it, it's not going to happen. Every step in the chain is going to degrade your sound but a mixer will be the least of your problems. If you want to use effects pedals, they are going to give you the most grief. They can be very noisy unless you set everything up just right.

Do you have any experience with those mixers? How do they sound? I don’t need them for mics... so I don’t care about the preamps...

I recently needed a replacement for my little Yamaha AG-06. I tried a bigger Yamaha, a Soundcraft and an Allen & Heath ZED10FX before I settle don a Behringer QX1002USB. It was way cheaper but it has more features and everything works just as well as on the more expensive and much larger alternatives. The on-board effects can be noisy but if you don't use them, you won't have any problems. I just find it handy to have a bit of default reverb on my hardware synths.

When I was looking, I wanted a mixer that also works as an audio I/O device but in the end I settle don feeding the mixer into my existing device, mostly because the Behringer uses ASIO4all and it was too much hassle.

So, having gone through the process this year, my recommendation would be to get a mixer and feed that into your audio interface. Look for a mixer that has all the features you need to support your hardware and just feed it's outputs into a dedicated interface. Personally, when I get around to recording any of the hardware, I will bypass the mixer and plug each instrument directly into the interface, using a good quality, short cable, just to keep the signal path as clean as possible.

One thing you will probably need to get used to is recording things one track at a time. When I used to pay to use proper studios, that's what we did. e.g. My Korg M1 only had four outputs so to get all the parts out of it and onto tape, I had to record different parts separately - drums in the first pass (4 x mono), then a bassline in L/R and maybe a pad in 3/4, then a third pass with two other parts and a fourth pass if required to get everything onto tape. Back then I couldn't afford really high-end studios so we had to sync it all manually (with a count in). At least you can start/stop recording in sync easily with a DAW. If you really do need to put down multiple tracks in one pass, be prepared to spend a lot more money.

[foosnark]

I just use a Behringer UMC1820. 8 analog inputs and I can route them however I want in my DAW (stereo pairs, mono, whatever). I've added an Expert Sleeprs ES-3 and ES-6, both for CV in/out and to pass stuff through effects whenever.

I do all my mixing in the DAW, record everything simultaneously to a single stereo file in one take, no multitracking. Not a process that's going to work for everyone to be sure, but it lets me record in a live improv style.

[imrae]

I'm using a smaller audio interface (Komplete Audio 6: 4-in 4-out plus SPDIF I/O) with a Neutrik TRS patchbay. My gear is racked up and already connected to the patchbay so it's quick and comfortable to choose what to record by using the normed connections, adding a patch lead or plugging a guitar etc. into the front of the patchbay.

(Same goes for the outputs, which are normed to go to the monitors and to the sampler input.)

Considering an X32 Rack though, it would be nice to jam without switching on the computer.

[Forgotten]

How about a USB mixer? There are some pretty decent budget price ones available from Behringer.

Thanks a lot!
Yeah I thought about them a lot of times... but I think the audio quality is not that great?
I’d like to have audiophile quality:)

Do you have any experience with those mixers? How do they sound? I don’t need them for mics... so I don’t care about the preamps...

I have one and I think it sounds fine

thanks a lot!
What are you doing with the mixer?

Running a Yamaha workstation and 2 synths through it. I can get a stereo out recording of anything I’m doing by connecting a laptop to the mixer too.

[JCJR]

Hi wurschtel. What do you mean by jamming? It might influence advice re workflow.

_1_ Since you mention recording several synths at the same time on their own tracks, maybe the jamming is a bunch of tabletop synths and sequencers and FX all wired together, and you get them all running and then twist knobs for hours to your hearts content? I'm not being critical, merely describing a possible meaning of "jamming".

_2_ If I wanted to record myself "jamming" solo, it might involve several synths but I'd mostly be swapping hands and feet and keyboard zones to play different lines on more than one synthesizer in real time. Not much automation or knob-twisting, unless maybe I would start up a drum machine or whatever.

_3_ Or in the past, not so much any more, me playing on a synth stack and also having drummer, guitarist, etc playing along at the same time same place.

For all three cases I suppose we would want numerous simultaneous record track capability to the computer.

But I don't do _1_ ever, and probably wouldn't bother to try to record my efforts at _2_. If you can get all the people together same place same time then _3_ can be nice.

I will jam with the computer off, but when recording I have already made an arrangement and know what is gonna get recorded, more or less. I record everything that can be done in MIDI and tweak out the rough spots. Then record any non-midi audio, and record the midi hardware synths into computer audio tracks.

In that scenario, I spent days and weeks writing and arranging the song and recording/polishing the midi tracks, and it only takes a half hour or an hour to record all the midi into separate DAW audio tracks one stereo pair at a time. So I just solo each MIDI track in the DAW, solo the hardware synth in the mixer (muting mixer noise from un-used mixer channels), and record that MIDI track. Takes 4 minutes for a 4 minute song. If there are 10 Midi tracks, takes 40 minutes plus a little overhead to bring them in to audio one at a time, and I can pay real close attention that each audio track gets recorded "as perfect possible" into the computer.If I was recording a bunch of simultaneous hardware synths from MIDI sequencer to computer audio, then maybe I would miss details and make mistakes and have to do some stuff over again anyway, and possibly playing all the MIDI tracks could give looser timing than playing them solo one at a time.

Sometimes multiple MIDI tracks are on a single multi-timbral synth, so even though I can record up to 16 independent tracks, in that case I would have to do it 1 MIDI track at a time to separate all the tracks from the multi-timbral synth into separate computer daw audio tracks.

There are many nice mixers and audio interfaces. I have two fairly recent Behringer mixers and have no complaints about the audio fidelity, especially for mostly line-level instruments, and the price. I just do not hear any significant hiss, hum, or distortion. Sounds clean to me.

My home studio is crowded so I have a Behringer XR18 rack-mount mixer, which I control with an ancient PC laptop dedicated to the task with a wireless trackball and an ethernet hardwire connection between laptop and XR18. The XR18 is quiet and clean no noticeable hum. Has 18 input channels. Very flexible routing. I can play my stack with the DAW computer turned off.

USB connection to the DAW computer, I can setup the computer audio interfacing 2 ways-- 16 in X 16 out audio channels, or 2 in X 2 out audio channels. It works fine either way. The 16X16 mode has higher latency in/out of the DAW, so after some early experimentation I usually run it 2 X 2 for lower latency, and it is very rare I need to record more than 2 tracks (stereo pair) at a time. The XR18 routing (controlled from my old ancient dedicated PC laptop) I can set a USB in/out grid, so if I want to record direct from the synth connected to inputs 9 and 10, I just set checkmarks in a grid in the USB routing window and the 2 USB channels into the computer receive/record nothing but the synth on inputs 9 and 10.

Similarly if I wanted to record a stereo pair of the XR18 main stereo mix, I ccould just set the two checkboxes for the XR18 main mix bus.

But if I needed to record lots of simultaneous stuff, I would just sacrifice latency and put it in 16X16 mode, and in the little USB routing window in the control software, set a diagonal grid of checkmarks, mixer ch 1 to computer input 1, mixer ch 2 to computer input 2, up to mixer ch 16 to computer input 16. Then later if I don't need 16 X 16 mode for awhile, I could put it back in 2 X 2 mode for lower DAW latency.

The other Behringer mixer is an inexpensive little xenyx 1222USB 12 channel analog mixer I got for a keyboard spot gig stage mixer. It has decent analog quality for the money. No loud hiss, hum or distortion. Has 2 X 2 usb audio interface. It was a little fiddly initially installing the driver mainly the fault of win10 updates changing the rules, not behringer IMO. After the usb was working, it works fine the times I've recorded the live rig into a laptop. It is only 2 X 2, but that is almost always the same way I use the XR18, almost always in 2X2 mode for lower latency.

[wurschtel]

There are mixers available with multi tracking over USB, but they can be expensive. How many ins and outs do you need?

min 8 ins and 2 outs

[wurschtel]

[...]
When I was looking, I wanted a mixer that also works as an audio I/O device but in the end I settle don feeding the mixer into my existing device, mostly because the Behringer uses ASIO4all and it was too much hassle.
[...]

thanks so much for your reply!
why was it a hassle? because of the latency?

[wurschtel]

I just use a Behringer UMC1820. 8 analog inputs and I can route them however I want in my DAW (stereo pairs, mono, whatever). I've added an Expert Sleeprs ES-3 and ES-6, both for CV in/out and to pass stuff through effects whenever.

I do all my mixing in the DAW, record everything simultaneously to a single stereo file in one take, no multitracking. Not a process that's going to work for everyone to be sure, but it lets me record in a live improv style.

hey! that interface looks great!
could I use it without a PC?
Or do need a DAW for routing them (stereo pairs, mono, etc.)
does this interface have an app for IOS or something? maybe that could help me..

because I really wanna play with my synth without having to run my Computer all the time

[BONES]

why was it a hassle? because of the latency?

Latency is fine with ASIO4all but it caused me a lot of grief trying to get it to work specifically with the mixer, as ASIO4all will work with any audio device it can find. Half the time the mixer was unavailable, so it just wouldn't work. Behringer are stupid to rely on it.

[foosnark]

hey! that interface looks great!
could I use it without a PC?
Or do need a DAW for routing them (stereo pairs, mono, etc.)

It needs a PC or Mac.

[thecontrolcentre]

There are mixers available with multi tracking over USB, but they can be expensive. How many ins and outs do you need?

min 8 ins and 2 outs

There's a lot of good info in this article:
https://thehomerecordings.com/mixers-usb-multitrack/

I'm thinking about getting one myself. The little A&H one looks cool.

[wurschtel]

why was it a hassle? because of the latency?

Latency is fine with ASIO4all but it caused me a lot of grief trying to get it to work specifically with the mixer, as ASIO4all will work with any audio device it can find. Half the time the mixer was unavailable, so it just wouldn't work. Behringer are stupid to rely on it.

Sounds not so great... but apart from that, does the mixer work to your satisfaction?

[wurschtel]

hey! that interface looks great!
could I use it without a PC?
Or do need a DAW for routing them (stereo pairs, mono, etc.)

It needs a PC or Mac.

Thanks!

[wurschtel]

There are mixers available with multi tracking over USB, but they can be expensive. How many ins and outs do you need?

min 8 ins and 2 outs

There's a lot of good info in this article:
https://thehomerecordings.com/mixers-usb-multitrack/

I'm thinking about getting one myself. The little A&H one looks cool.

Wow! Thanks a lot for this article!!

But the support page of A&H says, that they can just record 2 tracks at a time..

http://support.allen-heath.com/index.ph ... e/View/479