Controlling NI Komplete with third party controllers

[hannesmenzel]

Hi everyone,

Hope this is the right forum for the question. I'm planing to get a MIDI controller that is able to control NI Komplete as deep as possible. Even if Native Instruments own Kontrol series is told as deeply integrated with all the NKS and Komplete integration they somehow lack some features I like to have. So I'm basically ask for experiences here working with NI Komplete and third party controllers. i'd like to know whats really not possible with third party, what you managed to integrate (with Mackies Protocoll e.g. or maybe just Komplete Kontrol software). Did you manage to set up these macro control for thr dedicated software?

If you have any suggestions I'd be also happy to hear. I'd like to have all the basic MIDI things (knobs, faders, pads, 61+ keys, DAW transport; no step sequencer needed) in one. Considered Arturia Keylab or M-Audio Code already.

[hannesmenzel]

Nobody there? In Native Instruments forum noone had an idea either, but I was hoping there would be less developer specific loyality here ;)

[K-Bee]

I think Akai Advance is your best bet, at least in theory. It uses the VIP software which is fairly similar to Komplete Kontrol.
However (and there's a big "however" here) VIP is still buggy even after years ín production and the Advance keybed is incredibly stiff. I never really got to grips with mine so I actually replaced it for KK MKII recently.
It does support a lot of other plugin besides the NI one though

[hannesmenzel]

I think Akai Advance is your best bet, at least in theory. It uses the VIP software which is fairly similar to Komplete Kontrol.
However (and there's a big "however" here) VIP is still buggy even after years ín production and the Advance keybed is incredibly stiff. I never really got to grips with mine so I actually replaced it for KK MKII recently.
It does support a lot of other plugin besides the NI one though

Thanks for this suggestion. I had an eye on VIP lately (on sale in the boutique). The controller seems to be in the upper price range, even if it looks like it fits me needs quite nicely.

Have you (or anybody) figured out what the opening for third party controllers mentioned in Komplete Kontrol softwares changelog (v.2.1.0 or so) means? Is this the midi learn function for macro and bank switch?

The thing is, these KK controlers are quite expensive. But there must be something that makes people buy them anyway. So what is the catching feature concerning intergation what you cannot do with other controllers? I actually don't care watching plugin GUIs on a controller, while labeled controls might be quite nice.

[K-Bee]

So what is the catching feature concerning intergation what you cannot do with other controllers?

I think both the Advance and KK have the advantage because of the dedicated software devoloped specifically for the job. Think of KK and VIP as wrappers sort of self containing the plugin functions. One program to control them all, so to speak. A bit like Novation used to do with their Automap system, but way more advanced.
Without those "wrappers" you'll need to set all the MIDI mapping yourself. While that sounds tedious it's not really that much of a hassle, depending what DAW you use (FL Studio is a bitch. Bitwig is a breeze)
I'll agree that KK and Advance are fairly expensive but while the Advance never really got it right (Akai seem to launch a product, then forget all about it ), The KK MKii seems way more Komplete (pun intended )
If you want (almost) full access to what Komplete can offer without using a mouse KK MKii is the way to go. Other than that, it's a nicely looking, sturdy controller with a decent keybed)

[hannesmenzel]

If I got it right, in KK software I could anyway use these 8 macros and the program switches with any controler, right? And if I'd go for VIP, I'd map macros to single instruments.

I would rather tend to get this M-Audio, which is more in my price range and has the functions I'd like to use. I think DAW control is Mackie control protocol there and I'd try to make the encoders and faders static Midi CC 14-29. Maybe I'll get the VIP and map me some goto fx and the instruments and let all the NKS go.

I actually don't get why KK software is separate from Kontakt by the way. You just get a sound preview software with mappings that don't work in Kontakt, where you'd want to have your multichannel sampler...

[K-Bee]

The general idea with both KK and VIP is that every supported plugin will be automatically mapped with the most important functions (according to them, that is) to the various knobs. Akai has a community thread at their website forum for people uploading their own plugin maps for everyone to download. I don't think NI has the same but I haven't investigated further. Using VIP and KK does involve some menu diving since some synths have a lot of parameters mapped and. For instance, the advance only has 8 buttons so it's only natural to do it this way.
Obviously, you're free to change the parameters manually but that kind of takes the point out of it all. That makes it into a more or less "normal" controller and those can be had for fractions of the KK and Advance prices.
As for DAW control, I have no experience. I think it's too fiddly controlling a DAW without mouse and a computer monitor, but of course that's a personal preference.
What is your price range?

[acYm]

A bit like Novation used to do with their Automap system, but way more dumbed down.

gonna have to ftfy. I was not fond of the hardware, but as a controller, Automap was legit.
nowhere near as stone-cold useless as komplete kontrol.
edit- oh you were referring to the akai vip also. yeah that's ok too, but not "better" than automap, it's ballpark.

[hannesmenzel]

The general idea with both KK and VIP is that every supported plugin will be automatically mapped with the most important functions (according to them, that is) to the various knobs. Akai has a community thread at their website forum for people uploading their own plugin maps for everyone to download. I don't think NI has the same but I haven't investigated further. Using VIP and KK does involve some menu diving since some synths have a lot of parameters mapped and. For instance, the advance only has 8 buttons so it's only natural to do it this way.
Obviously, you're free to change the parameters manually but that kind of takes the point out of it all. That makes it into a more or less "normal" controller and those can be had for fractions of the KK and Advance prices.
As for DAW control, I have no experience. I think it's too fiddly controlling a DAW without mouse and a computer monitor, but of course that's a personal preference.
What is your price range?

I don't think that KK has that feature because it hasn't the functionality to statically link controls to specific plugin parameters. This function of VIP seems very appealing to me, but I'd like to know if this also works for kontakt instruments (since it's something like a plugin in a plugin then).

My budget is actually very low, but I realized that it seems not to be negotiable to under 200 bucks, so something around that. M-Audio, Nektar and Alesis (and maybe some others) are in that range, any others are above or just available in reduced versions.

[auron]

I think K-Bee gave the right hint what software/keyboard is best for you. But its a hard decision what to get . I have a Nektar LX88+ trying to control KK , but the only thing that is quite nice are 8 Knobs controlling Cutoff/Resonance etc and the 8 drumpads . Everything else is somewhat missing, not working precisely (like preset up/down). The biggest weird thing in KK is that many of the 3rd party controllers have 8 faders, right? But you cant use them because KK has no option to learn them
If you go to the midi learn page in KK , there is only to learn those 8 knobs . Why? look at the Komplete Kontrol keyboards , are there any faders? No. Maybe it is coming in future updates, i dont know. I have Komplete 12 ,Halion6 and Cubase 10 pro by the way. If you use preset up/down button its all working with Steinberg Instruments f.e., but in KK it jumps 2 presets further instead of 1 , this is useless . Next thing is you cant midi learn arpeggiator and chords in KK, seems to be integrated with KK Keyboards. But if you work in Cubase controlling the daw, the Nektar keyboard is really a nice companion.

So maybe VIP in combination with a m-audio code 61 could be the right choice for you. Maybe i will try the demo-version of VIP next time, but for now i have enough lost time mapping this and that.

[DJ Warmonger]

Akai has a community thread at their website forum for people uploading their own plugin maps for everyone to download.

Unfortrunatelly, it's not managed effort and many maps just become unavaliable after link expires. Even if you download old maps, they might not work with current VIP version (like Harmor map).

[Goony]

Yes there is a NI user NKS files section for Komplete Kontrol

[aMUSEd]

The general idea with both KK and VIP is that every supported plugin will be automatically mapped with the most important functions (according to them, that is) to the various knobs. Akai has a community thread at their website forum for people uploading their own plugin maps for everyone to download. I don't think NI has the same but I haven't investigated further.

KK has a much more dedicated community and user library and better third party support

[K-Bee]

The general idea with both KK and VIP is that every supported plugin will be automatically mapped with the most important functions (according to them, that is) to the various knobs. Akai has a community thread at their website forum for people uploading their own plugin maps for everyone to download. I don't think NI has the same but I haven't investigated further.

KK has a much more dedicated community and user library and better third party support

Good to know, I'll have to look into that

[Polomo123]

Nektar Panorama T6 is in my opinion the Best
The deepest integration not only on Native Instrument Plugins
You can do literally anything with it.
The automapping is really strong I can map all parameters with name. Only thing its get a bit messy with all the meters