I tried this using Cubase and Ableton with no luck.
My Moog and Virus both sync perfectly but somehow the neutron LFO isn't syncing. Argh.
I held 'Key Sync" and tried other things but no luck. The synth connects to the app and I get sound but no incoming Midi clock is being received for some reason.
Is this a hardware issue?
I'm on OS 10.12.6
Behringer Neutron not receiving Midi clock from DAW. OS 10.12.6
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 3 posts since 8 Jan, 2019
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- KVRAF
- 6420 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden
I did some tests, and it is working(firmware v2, mine was delivered with v1 a few weeks ago).
But cannot say it is easy to get any predictable result.
And get sense of documention either how it says rate knob is used.
1. have key sync off so not having to play a note.
2. enter edit with holding key sync
3. have osc sync off.
4. have lfo rate knob up around 12 oclock, get som almost fluttering sound
5. have sequencer running
6. switch osc sync on and off in between and usually you can hear difference
I did a test project varying tempo from 70-140 every couple of bars, and divider is not as distinct as I would like it to be.
And stopping transport, I know midi clock stop send - but same rate continue on Neutron.
I think some settings for this in next firmware update would be good - if to exit external sync if no clock etc.
And somehow get a up/down feature to switch between dividers distinct, rather than a knob you have no clue where you are.
Really hard to find the dividers - 4/1, 3/1, 2/1, 3/2, 1/1, 1/2, 3/8, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, 3/16, 1/6, 1/7, 1/8,
3/32, 1/12, 1/16, 1/24, 1/32, 1/48, 1/64.
I'm not used to use external sync, so will have to experiment.
But cannot say it is easy to get any predictable result.
And get sense of documention either how it says rate knob is used.
1. have key sync off so not having to play a note.
2. enter edit with holding key sync
3. have osc sync off.
4. have lfo rate knob up around 12 oclock, get som almost fluttering sound
5. have sequencer running
6. switch osc sync on and off in between and usually you can hear difference
I did a test project varying tempo from 70-140 every couple of bars, and divider is not as distinct as I would like it to be.
And stopping transport, I know midi clock stop send - but same rate continue on Neutron.
I think some settings for this in next firmware update would be good - if to exit external sync if no clock etc.
And somehow get a up/down feature to switch between dividers distinct, rather than a knob you have no clue where you are.
Really hard to find the dividers - 4/1, 3/1, 2/1, 3/2, 1/1, 1/2, 3/8, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, 3/16, 1/6, 1/7, 1/8,
3/32, 1/12, 1/16, 1/24, 1/32, 1/48, 1/64.
I'm not used to use external sync, so will have to experiment.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 3 posts since 8 Jan, 2019
Thanks so much for the reply.
I did read these instructions on some other forum as well but the results aren't exactly great. Still lots off drift etc.
Cheers though!!
I did read these instructions on some other forum as well but the results aren't exactly great. Still lots off drift etc.
Cheers though!!
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- KVRAF
- 6420 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden
When using lfo sync key - I felt it was really slow in how it responded, almost impossible to hear changes. Like using the slew rate feature kind of. Almost not updating while holding a note, or similar feel to it.
But rather distinct when lfo is free running to midi clock.
I haven't used this enough to tell how it should work with sync key as well.
I use some patch cables from lfo to slew rate as well over to fmod, maybe I f**k it up by that.
But it's the same as when lfo is free running, so maybe not.
since they have 4/1 as divider, all the way to 1/64 - that would mean 64 times tempo?
To run with audible frequencies, or?
Maybe combined with tracking keyboard keys as well.
I think I will try some with Nordlead and see how they did it.
But rather distinct when lfo is free running to midi clock.
I haven't used this enough to tell how it should work with sync key as well.
I use some patch cables from lfo to slew rate as well over to fmod, maybe I f**k it up by that.
But it's the same as when lfo is free running, so maybe not.
since they have 4/1 as divider, all the way to 1/64 - that would mean 64 times tempo?
To run with audible frequencies, or?
Maybe combined with tracking keyboard keys as well.
I think I will try some with Nordlead and see how they did it.
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- KVRer
- 2 posts since 24 Jan, 2016 from NY
Greetings!
I’ve had the same issue with my analog synths not following clock for arpeggios and LFOs (Neutron, MiniBrute, etc) when using Ableton Live, but I found a pretty easy workaround for studio work. Note: This won’t work in a live performance situation.
I’ve been starting off all my projects with a measure of silence.
Having the extra measure gives the external synths time to get their clocks synced before any notes start playing. It’s not convenient when writing—who wants to start at the beginning every time you want to preview your track? — but until I figure out a proper fix, it’s good enough.
I hope this helps!
Cheers
-Rich
I’ve had the same issue with my analog synths not following clock for arpeggios and LFOs (Neutron, MiniBrute, etc) when using Ableton Live, but I found a pretty easy workaround for studio work. Note: This won’t work in a live performance situation.
I’ve been starting off all my projects with a measure of silence.
Having the extra measure gives the external synths time to get their clocks synced before any notes start playing. It’s not convenient when writing—who wants to start at the beginning every time you want to preview your track? — but until I figure out a proper fix, it’s good enough.
I hope this helps!
Cheers
-Rich
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- KVRian
- 726 posts since 25 Aug, 2019
Try to reset the settings from Neutron's app, there are configurations for lfo in the app that don't have any representation on the device panel.dogeatdogg1 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:16 pm I tried this using Cubase and Ableton with no luck.
My Moog and Virus both sync perfectly but somehow the neutron LFO isn't syncing. Argh.
I held 'Key Sync" and tried other things but no luck. The synth connects to the app and I get sound but no incoming Midi clock is being received for some reason.
Is this a hardware issue?
I'm on OS 10.12.6
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- KVRAF
- 6420 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden
I think it's rather complicated matter.
See it like this - usually you have some plugins causing latency compensation to run in the daw.
So all audio and midi is running later because of this - compared to grid.
And if midi clock is not delayed properly note-on will arive after and be played late and thereafter as note is held early.
All external gear is having response time as well, so to make that line up I set midi tracks with negative delay like 3-6ms depending on what I calibrated. Every gear is different. This might result in that if midi clock is not adjusted exactly to this tracks delay and the pdc i work - note will sound on a different clock that when on grid, if that is where note is.
I expect to do more midi clock driven stuff getting my Wavestate soon - so will experiment and see how this things work. If you record/render the gear you should be able to see if your daw really adjust midi clock with pdc used or not - and how is track delays are handled.
Midi clock is sent 24 times each quarternote so it will matter on exactly which clock it finds a note-on is my reasoning.
At bpm 120 it's 2 quarternotes a second. 0.5s/24=0.0208s=21ms between clocks.
So if it sound one clock late - it's 21ms late which will be awful.
Play anything percussive that off will not work.
If you had that roundtrip latency playing it does not work, must be less that 10ms at the most. Closer to 5ms and you are pretty ok.
So clock should be sent as late as pdc used, so the notes held are played on the expected clock.
And anybody use track delays to play early - these need to have individual midi clock timing on that port it sends to.
This is what I meant - rather complicated.
I tested ProTools Express 3 years ago or so, to get a first glimpse. They did not even adjust metronome to pdc and asio buffers used - a bug they knew about but never fixed(v10.x), only in full version PT 11. So never bought PT. These are the guys with the "industry standard" daw that let flaws like that linger.
So how do daws measure up with midi clock on this?
Running StudioOne now, and will see how this goes - drum roll till then.......
See it like this - usually you have some plugins causing latency compensation to run in the daw.
So all audio and midi is running later because of this - compared to grid.
And if midi clock is not delayed properly note-on will arive after and be played late and thereafter as note is held early.
All external gear is having response time as well, so to make that line up I set midi tracks with negative delay like 3-6ms depending on what I calibrated. Every gear is different. This might result in that if midi clock is not adjusted exactly to this tracks delay and the pdc i work - note will sound on a different clock that when on grid, if that is where note is.
I expect to do more midi clock driven stuff getting my Wavestate soon - so will experiment and see how this things work. If you record/render the gear you should be able to see if your daw really adjust midi clock with pdc used or not - and how is track delays are handled.
Midi clock is sent 24 times each quarternote so it will matter on exactly which clock it finds a note-on is my reasoning.
At bpm 120 it's 2 quarternotes a second. 0.5s/24=0.0208s=21ms between clocks.
So if it sound one clock late - it's 21ms late which will be awful.
Play anything percussive that off will not work.
If you had that roundtrip latency playing it does not work, must be less that 10ms at the most. Closer to 5ms and you are pretty ok.
So clock should be sent as late as pdc used, so the notes held are played on the expected clock.
And anybody use track delays to play early - these need to have individual midi clock timing on that port it sends to.
This is what I meant - rather complicated.
I tested ProTools Express 3 years ago or so, to get a first glimpse. They did not even adjust metronome to pdc and asio buffers used - a bug they knew about but never fixed(v10.x), only in full version PT 11. So never bought PT. These are the guys with the "industry standard" daw that let flaws like that linger.
So how do daws measure up with midi clock on this?
Running StudioOne now, and will see how this goes - drum roll till then.......
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- KVRer
- 1 posts since 20 Feb, 2022
I have just bought the Neutron and found I had the same problem of the Neutron's LFO MIDI sync not syncing with the Cubase MIDI clock. This was after I had configured the Neutron to sync its LFO to the DAW MIDI clock. I am on a PC, however, if the problem is the same as what I had, I fixed it in Cubase, as the Neutron had not been configured to be a MIDI clock destination in Cubase. To fix this, In Cubase, Goto: Transport menu>Project Synchronization Setup>MIDI Clock Out Section> (checkmark the desired MIDI Clock Destination) This should work for any device that can sync to a MIDI clock, so make sure that any device you want to sync is set up as a MIDI clock destination.
