Dave Smith Prophet 12 Module Or Pro 2?

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

Both are in the same price range. Normally I wouldn't take any notice of hybrid synthesizers, but the Minilogue XD has changed all that for me (it sounds wonderful).

So I heard a Pro 2 demo and loved it, but it's lacking in the polyphony department (it has 4 voice paraphonic capability). My assumption is that it uses the same filters as in the Prophet-6 and Oberheim-6 which is a pretty nice combination to have.

Then I heard the Prophet 12, which has the polyphony, but uses official (not Behringer) Curtis chips for the filters, and I really really wanted to love the sound, but I'm not feeling it at all.

It can't be the digital oscillators, because the Pro 2 uses them, and I love the sound of the Pro 2 as much as the Minilogue XD (which also has analog VCOs).

So my question is, which sounds better to you? And why am I not feeling the Prophet 12?
<List your stupid gear here>

Post

have you tried finding other demos?
could it be the quality of the audio of the demo?
or the particular patches being used?

in the end though, it will come down to personal preference. there may be similarities between the models, but also differences, otherwise what's the point?
these minor differences can add up to a sound that does it for you or one that doesn't.

Post

vurt wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:38 pm have you tried finding other demos?
could it be the quality of the audio of the demo?
or the particular patches being used?

in the end though, it will come down to personal preference. there may be similarities between the models, but also differences, otherwise what's the point?
these minor differences can add up to a sound that does it for you or one that doesn't.
Yeah, I've listened to various demos (and still am) and some definitely show the Prophet 12's warmer side. I actually find it an incredible sounding synth, but subjectively, it leaves me cold. I have exactly the same weird reaction between the Korg Prologue while leaves me cold, while I love the Korg Minilogue XD. I can only guess that for whatever reason, I like one kind of filter over another.
<List your stupid gear here>

Post

There are MANY poly synths from various manufacturers used Curtis filter chips.

The filter chips are actually kinda a filter toolkit, containing the typical things one would othwise build out of discrete circuits and wire together to make a filter. Four transconductance amps, an anti-log voltage converter, some buffer amps. The Curtis appnotes showed some typical ways you could add parts and connections to make some kinda of filters, and maybe some/most synths just used something real close to one of the example circuits, but there are many kinds of filter that could be wired up from a Curtis filter chip.

So just because a synth contains Curtis filter chip doesn't guarantee they will all sound the same. Though maybe in actual devices they USIALLY do sound similar, dunno.

The transconductance amps are pretty good compared to discrete transconductance chips commonly available back then, so it didn't lose much in potential quality and saved a lot of circuit board space doing the same thing as several simpler chips that probably don't perform any better and likely perform worse unless you paid extra for selected parts.

Post

I took a listen to the Prophet Rev 2, which has the Curtis filter, and it sounds amazing to my ears. So it's not anything specifically related to filters. It may just be down to subjective hearing or taste, I'm not sure.

Also, I listened again to an Access Virus, and still love it, so it's not related to things sounding too digital. I'm more going by feeling than hearing at this point.
<List your stupid gear here>

Post

I had a Rev2 and I hated the filter, the Pro2 sounds nicer to me, albeit limited.

Post

db3 wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:01 pm I had a Rev2 and I hated the filter, the Pro2 sounds nicer to me, albeit limited.
Yeah, I think I may actually put a Pro 2 on my wish list for now.
<List your stupid gear here>

Post

A lot of folks like the pro2 and DS added some goodies to it improving on the old pro 1.

I listened to some pro2 demos. I liked the pro1 ok it was on the tail end of that first era when it was feasible to sell a mono synth in commercial quantities, most folks going for poly synths that would also play mono good enough to get the job done or was judged so by many musicians of the time.

Isn't behringer about to release a pro1 clone?

I'm baffled why so much modern attention on so many old axes that had quite a bit of overlap in sound and features. But it's fine if people like it. Maybe like guitarists obsessing on the sound differences of very similar guitars? Harmless fun.

I kinda saw pro1 as basically a cheaper mono prophet 5. Octave Cat as a less expensive wannabe odyssey, "almost but not quite" as good sound, flexibility and build quality of an odyssey.

Baffling to my simple mind why behringer would want to make not only an oddyssey but also a Cat. Maybe because it would be easy to recycle much of the odyssey engineering into a Cat so why not? Or maybe the sound and features really are drastically different dunno.

I'm just somewhat agnostic on the mystic sound properties of synth x vs synth y. Sure each might have a special trick or quirk. Some probably easier to nail certain sounds. There are certain old style lead tones might be a lot harder to nail on anything except a minimoog. Certain prophet 5 sounds you could get in the ballpark with an oberheim or memorymoog but probably never completely nail it

Then the sonic footprint of CS60/80 or Jupiter 8, you couldn't nail a memorymoog oberheim or prophet but OTOH those can't completely nail what CS or Jupiter were good at either. And Jupiter couldn't emulate CS or vice versa.

But they were similar enough that if you only had any one of them you could get a sound "close enough" to sit in a track without needing every single one! :)

Wish I had more time energy got curious some of those synth demos you posted that you liked. Too lazy and maybe it would turn out a laughable old geezer's folly but I suspect could get close to nailing some of those demos on the silly fa06 virtual analog engine if I spent enough time on it. Maybe get surprisingly close on some sounds even on a silly sound canvas sc55 given enough effort, if there are any GS editors that still work.

Could be all wrong with my hunch. And even if true, maybe it would take more time not be as easy to do. Maybe like getting a telecaster to sound like a jazz box. I've heard it done but it's easier to just plug in a jazz box.

Sorry I just wouldn't use those kinda of analog synth sounds nowadays but it just seems to me a lot of "not very special" gear could be coaxed into that sonic ballpark.

Post

egbert101 wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:07 pm So my question is, which sounds better to you? And why am I not feeling the Prophet 12?
Like the sound of the Pro-2 better... but no polyphony
The Prophet 12 has a great spec, but somehow the sound just doesn't do it for me. Plus there is just the one LP filter...

Now that the P12 is discontinued, I'm waiting for what they release next. A P12 replacement with 2 filters would be very compelling.

Post

Have you considered the Novation Peak?

Post

eXode wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:37 pm Have you considered the Novation Peak?
Yes, in fact I was listening to Novation Ultranova demos yesterday, and was highly impressed, but there was this lack of clarity or something muddy I didn't like in the sound, which seems to be gone in the Novation Peak.

However, again, subjectivity and feelings are what I was going with yesterday, and today is a new day.
<List your stupid gear here>

Post

pdxindy wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:32 pm Like the sound of the Pro-2 better... but no polyphony
The Prophet 12 has a great spec, but somehow the sound just doesn't do it for me. Plus there is just the one LP filter...

Now that the P12 is discontinued, I'm waiting for what they release next. A P12 replacement with 2 filters would be very compelling.
Yeah I'm not in any rush, and agree that on paper, these should sound and do sound excellent, but I'm just not bonding with them. If Dave Smith brought out something like a 4-voice polyphonic Pro-2 (a Pro-3?) with those two filters in the Pro-2, then I can imagine many more people would be all over it.

Pro 2 is still on my wish list, and for now, the OB-6 and Prophet-6 are the only polys that interest me, too bad they're out of my price range (guess I'll wait for what Behringer comes up with).
<List your stupid gear here>

Post

JCJR wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:56 pm I'm baffled why so much modern attention on so many old axes that had quite a bit of overlap in sound and features. But it's fine if people like it. Maybe like guitarists obsessing on the sound differences of very similar guitars? Harmless fun.

I kinda saw pro1 as basically a cheaper mono prophet 5. Octave Cat as a less expensive wannabe odyssey, "almost but not quite" as good sound, flexibility and build quality of an odyssey.

Baffling to my simple mind why behringer would want to make not only an oddyssey but also a Cat. Maybe because it would be easy to recycle much of the odyssey engineering into a Cat so why not? Or maybe the sound and features really are drastically different dunno.

I'm just somewhat agnostic on the mystic sound properties of synth x vs synth y. Sure each might have a special trick or quirk. Some probably easier to nail certain sounds. There are certain old style lead tones might be a lot harder to nail on anything except a minimoog. Certain prophet 5 sounds you could get in the ballpark with an oberheim or memorymoog but probably never completely nail it

[..]

Wish I had more time energy got curious some of those synth demos you posted that you liked. Too lazy and maybe it would turn out a laughable old geezer's folly but I suspect could get close to nailing some of those demos on the silly fa06 virtual analog engine if I spent enough time on it. Maybe get surprisingly close on some sounds even on a silly sound canvas sc55 given enough effort, if there are any GS editors that still work.

Could be all wrong with my hunch. And even if true, maybe it would take more time not be as easy to do. Maybe like getting a telecaster to sound like a jazz box. I've heard it done but it's easier to just plug in a jazz box.

Sorry I just wouldn't use those kinda of analog synth sounds nowadays but it just seems to me a lot of "not very special" gear could be coaxed into that sonic ballpark.
Oh I think digital synths are great, and yeah, you could totally fool me between the preset of a software synth and an analog synth. But I have recently fallen out of love with analog emulations and the entire software hype train. Going back to analog seems like a fool's errand, and a trap, but there is something within me calling to them. Also, I want to change the way I sit in front of a PC to more sitting in front of an actual synthesizer. I just get that excited feeling again. And it's very subjective, for example the Korg Odyssey's seem dead to my ears, yet I feel nothing but excitement over the Behringer Odyssey, even though they sound identical side by side, no? So yeah, I got some serious hearing problems.
<List your stupid gear here>

Post

I’ve never actually heard either one in person. On paper, the specs of the P12 look great, but I’ve seen a lot of people complaining about the sound. Does it have the same crap Curtis filter found in all the DSI synths since the Evolver?

On the other hand, I’ve only seen good reviews and comments about the P2. It was the first DSI to use a different filter, which is enough to get my attention on its own. I thought it was all analog, not a digital osc like in the P12, but perhaps I was mistaken. It seems to me that the Elektron A4 would be a pretty comparable alternative to the P2, and I’d be comparing between those two instead.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

Post

deastman wrote: Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:07 am I’ve never actually heard either one in person. On paper, the specs of the P12 look great, but I’ve seen a lot of people complaining about the sound. Does it have the same crap Curtis filter found in all the DSI synths since the Evolver?
Isn't one of the obvious parts of "analog" that there are tolerances on components and one will not sound exactly like the other?
They have personality.

Resistors you get rather cheap better than 1% tolerance, but reactive components like coils and capacitors are more difficult - so you often have adjustable components. Adjust ferrit core of a coil is fairly easy even for larger values as for audio filters, but capacitors you really cannot go so high in values making them adjustable. In my days with electronics(the 80's) capacitors were pretty much pF range that were adjustable, and not used so much for audio purposes, rather RF stuff. Things probably happend since then though if you got nF or uF stuff that can be adjusted possibly.

You have envelope and key tracking moving cross over frequencies depending on which key you press etc. This also need a range adjustable that follow correctly. You could be ok in one octave, and not so much in the next.

2-pole filters LP/HP you have two reactive components as I recall, getting 12 dB/octave, and 4 pole for 24 dB have 4 reactive components.

Then BP filters I don't remember by heart exactly if double amount of reactive components.

So exactly if you get a beautyful resonance, now matter how you tweak, might differ from one unit to the other.

And they will also change over time how they sound.

It's the same with rack units for studios as well, and all channels in a console will sound a bit different etc. Waves modelled one chosen unit to model from CLA for compressors etc. I heard CLA talk about some unit were his favourites.

This is part of the charm - but could be fatal as well if one unit is properly handled and adjusted in production.

Not sure if it's like "want" or "don't want" as with guitars and you really have to look around for one that sounds nice enough - even in like $4000 Taylors as I discovered a year ago. But certain type of sounds in analog synth could be different enough that you favour one unit to the next.

So the higher you go in pricetag I would not buy but play the very unit I pick - never online purchase. I saw Thomann.de had B-stock on Prophet 12 as an example - maybe not being a good unit or buyer just expected much more, not sure.

Just a few things that I thought was forgotten over how a unit sounds in a review.

But what has been the biggest difference in many I heard was that YT-video makers did not do a very good job rendering their vids for YT. Both lacking warm bass and having harsch mids some of them. None were these DSI though.

Post Reply

Return to “Hardware (Instruments and Effects)”