New NS-10 clone - CLA-10 - overpriced junk or worth trying?

[lfm]

http://www.avantonepro.com/cla-10.php

Chris Lord-Alge put his name on them - as many celebrities do on products.

Making things sound exclusive:
"...18mm MDF with real wood veneer"

MDF is MDF, right - some kind of glued sawdust?
And veneer is normally wood, or it's not veneer, right?

This kind of marketing thing really make me wonder?

$700 for passive put them a bit like Focal or Adam(if they do passive, don't know).
I run passive monitors now, so no biggy to try really.

But some years ago I saw NS-10's on eBay for less. Maybe speaker elements worn out, one never knows.

And why did Yamaha stop making NS-10 if they were relevant today?

What do you think?

[justin3am]

Boy that is a toughy. I would never use a pair of NS-10s as my main set of near-field monitors but they are great for reference (as are the Avantone Mix Cubes). If you already have a set of ATC or Barefoot monitors, these might be a great second set of monitors. I certainly wouldn't get these in place of a set of ADAMs or Focals.

It seems that their was a focus on making an accurate reproduction, so it makes sense that these are made from the same materials as the originals (aside from the woofer cones, apparently).

[ghettosynth]

Here's a good article with a linked research report on the NS-10s.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/yamaha-ns10-story

I personally have no interest, but, if I did, I would fork over the cash for these as opposed to vintage originals, even though I think that they are WAY overpriced. Speakers with paper cones do wear out, especially if they were ever pushed.

I think that it comes down to why you want them. If you're trying to convince clients that you're legit, then originals, whether you use them or not, will probably have more impact.

[bmrzycki]

"...18mm MDF with real wood veneer"

MDF is MDF, right - some kind of glued sawdust?
And veneer is normally wood, or it's not veneer, right?

This kind of marketing thing really make me wonder?

MDF is Medium Density Fibreboard. As you said, it is a form of glued sawdust. But the important thing is the particles in MDF tend to be much more uniform in their distribution and size. The creates a panel with a more homogeneous density than wood planks, plywood, or particle board. This makes MDF ideal for inexpensive resonance chambers and almost all speakers today are made from some form of MDF. But not all MDF is created equal and I have no idea what the quality is of what they're using. The cheap stuff uses lower-quality resins that can bubble, crack, or break down from sunlight. Less expensive MDF also does a poor job of filtering the wood particles which means, as a speaker, it's less uniform in its resonance. Unfortunately it's next to impossible to determine the MDF quality of a speaker because MDF is almost always covered with a veneer.

A veneer is a thin decorative layer applied to MDF and can be made from a variety of materials. Common ones are thin strips of real wood, plastic, or hybrid products with a mix of both. By stating "wood veneer" I take it to mean "real hardwood sliced thin and glued to the MDF". This is a more expensive option and most opt a vinyl-plasic substance that's cheap and can be sprayed onto the MDF. If you've ever touched a pair of budget black monitors you've encountered this.

With all of this said, I have no idea if the new NS-10 clones are worth the asking price or not. Demoing a pair in person is always the way I purchase monitors.

[masterhiggins]

Well I hope mdf makes better speaker boxes than it does furniture. f**king IKEA.

[ghettosynth]

Well I hope mdf makes better speaker boxes than it does furniture. f**king IKEA.

It does. If you aren't going to make them out of baltic birch (plywood), then you want MDF. Really, MDF is better in terms of resonance, but not so much in terms of weight. Of course, weight is usually not a problem with studio monitors.

They are only rigid, however, because of the box structure and the dimensions. Without that, i.e., most furniture, they aren't very strong, hence, make terrible shelves and tables.

[Aloysius]

His man boobs look lopsided. It begs the question ... are the speakers evenly matched?

[Winstontaneous]

That's an excellent article and the most important takeaway is the great performance of NS-10s (and similar sealed speakers) in the time domain compared to ported monitors. I've spent time with NS-10s and the bigger Yamaha NS 3-ways - they all sound wretched in their own way but are very useful.

Here's a good article with a linked research report on the NS-10s.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/yamaha-ns10-story

I personally have no interest, but, if I did, I would fork over the cash for these as opposed to vintage originals, even though I think that they are WAY overpriced. Speakers with paper cones do wear out, especially if they were ever pushed.

I think that it comes down to why you want them. If you're trying to convince clients that you're legit, then originals, whether you use them or not, will probably have more impact.

[lfm]

Boy that is a toughy. I would never use a pair of NS-10s as my main set of near-field monitors but they are great for reference (as are the Avantone Mix Cubes). If you already have a set of ATC or Barefoot monitors, these might be a great second set of monitors. I certainly wouldn't get these in place of a set of ADAMs or Focals.

It seems that their was a focus on making an accurate reproduction, so it makes sense that these are made from the same materials as the originals (aside from the woofer cones, apparently).

Good thoughts, thank you.

Main thought was to have a second pair. But maybe really have a look at reviews first.

I mean - wasn't Yamaha trying to do something with the newer series and build on what they knew already? If it was HM8- and H-series overall - but with more modern approach with some room adjusting features we expect today - not for milliondollar studios with everything one can think of.

If it was 5-6 years ago - I looked at these as passive also:
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/ac ... nergy-ae22

With some similarities with NS-10 being sealed and not ported.

[lfm]

Here's a good article with a linked research report on the NS-10s.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/yamaha-ns10-story

I think that it comes down to why you want them. If you're trying to convince clients that you're legit, then originals, whether you use them or not, will probably have more impact.

Thank you - interesting article.

Nah, nothing to do with impressing anybody - so can go for noname something if so.

One book I have on mixing put almost half the pages on monitoring issues - so was into that for a while - frequency domain and time domain and whatnot.

Link in article to
https://dt7v1i9vyp3mf.cloudfront.net/as ... 1aJ4mEwV4P.

and look at graphs of various speakers - and this is really interesting. We always talk about frequency curves and stuff - and not so much about time domain.

[lfm]

With all of this said, I have no idea if the new NS-10 clones are worth the asking price or not. Demoing a pair in person is always the way I purchase monitors.

Thanks for input on mdf.

I really like the Waves CLA stuff - but don't know if he puts his name on anything if money is right.

I have a lot of live concerts on dvd - and when I feel sound is excellent - I look at mixers and producers in aftertexts - and very often is CLA there.

[lfm]

His man boobs look lopsided. It begs the question ... are the speakers evenly matched?

[JCJR]

Room acoustics is IMO more important than speakers. If you have a good-treated room then a modestly accurate speaker will do better than a "deluxe" speaker in a bad-treated room.

Unless the room acoustics are already excellent, throwing a lot of money at speakers IMO putting the cart before the horse.

While working on getting room acoustics as good possible, my ignorant opinion maybe something like JBL 308P MkII as good as it will get in practice. After room acoustics have been made "excellent" maybe a real expensive speaker would do even better or maybe not.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I think one thing to keep in mind is that NS-10's aren't said to sound good at all, there's little low-end, but they're all about presenting you with a brutally honest midrange. When you hear about them, or see them in control rooms, there's usually another pair of monitors right next them. I believe most people will prepare the mix on more full range monitors, then switch to NS-10's for checking the midrange and getting things sounding good at the end of the process. So if you already have a great pair of monitors, and don't mind adding a passive set of speakers to your setup, go for it. If these were going to be your only monitors, I'd suggest that you get something else first.

[JCJR]

True, and the "famous endorsers" use any of the speakers in well-treated rooms.