IK Multimedia releases MODO DRUM

[mixtur.se]

Just got this and wanted to share some feedback. For context, I’ve played drums for 30 years and recorded and mixed drums for 20.

First of all, thank you IK for finally bringing us usable synthesized drums.
With that out of the way I do have some feedback.

1) Most of the presets have far too much room/reverb/fx and sound a bit cheesy to me. It doesn’t do the instrument justice imho.
2) IK should consider adding a blank init patch for each kit without fx/room.
3) A bypass button for all inserts in the mixer would be useful
4) A CC to mute the drums would be cool (i.e hand on skin)
5) mixer presets per channel would be great. The unprocessed sounds doesn’t sound entirely convincing but they really do come alive with basic eq and compression. Presets would allow users to quickly a usable sound.
6) please add a transient shaper plugin, it’s essential
7) I understand that the controls are designed to provide natural results, but wider ranges would open up for more creative sound design.
9) Add separate tambourine grooves
10) A shaker would be an essential add on
11) The midi grooves sounds a bit robotic to me
12) midi mapping....
13) Ability to add samples for layering (ex sub kick), or at the vey least add MODO drum layers.

I was expecting more possibilities to alter the tone and ended up feeling a bit restricted. Perhaps future versions could include that me like shell material, shell thickness, type of rim and more head types and stick types (thickness, mallets etc) as all of these hugely affect the sound. Perhaps then one drum per type could cover all bases.

More variations for cymbals is also a given addition, as well as more effects options.

Overall this is a great version 1 and I can’t wait to see how this technology develops. I suspect that in a couple of years time I can clean out all my sampled kits an recover a couple of hundred gigabytes of HD space.

I did ultimately find most of the drums very playable and realistic, once I pulled back the fx. Well done IK.

Anyway, I’ve just played with it for an hour so please forgive me if missed something that is already there.

[Captain]

100% agree with all of the above requests! The ability to layer samples and make hybrid ”live/electronic” drumkits is something I want to explore more (it’s easy to do in SD3, for example), and I’m hoping MODO will have the same option. Hopefully with an extensive library of electronic/layer drums, and the ability to use your own samples.

Also, like we have seen with Pianoteq, it’s nice to model real instruments, but one of the coolest aspects of the whole modeling business is that we can go crazy with the parameters and create some imaginary monster instruments. In MODO Drums, it would be great if there was (for example) an option to make the parameter ranges go beyond their real-life limitations, maybe expose some hidden parameters too, and see what happens...

As mentioned, this is the first release, and really the 1st instrument of its kind, so we can’t expect to have everything now, and it’s a miracle it already works so well.... and I’m sure it will get even better with time.

[mixtur.se]

Thanks for the information. We do also have a link to more information on AVX on the MODO DRUM Specs page for anybody interested.

Peter, will you be doing expansion packs for MODO? I’d love to have some electronic kits and also brushes?

I don't have specific information about expansions etc but the requests for brushes has been relayed. I'm not sure how electronic drums would work in the physically-modeled context (though I understand it would be cool to have them fully synthesized) but I'm open to an angle I'm not seeing on that.

Electronic drums would be awesome for layering as a lot of modern drum sounds are very processed. Having it built in would be essential for live use and at least handy when using in a DAW context

[mixtur.se]

we participate and actually correct a range of misunderstandings, miscommunications, and such

Peter, as a potential customer who is interested in buying an infinite layers/infinite round robins drum library but has no access to a demo version and only goes by the sound files other users post, I'd really like to know your thoughts about the obviously jumpy velocity dynamic layers of the snare drum. Is it the limitation of the current technology or is it a bug?

My guess is that this is due to the heavy processing in the presets more than anything else.I do t hear any sudden jumps when playing the raw sounds

[Captain]

My guess is that this is due to the heavy processing in the presets more than anything else.I do t hear any sudden jumps when playing the raw sounds

A while ago I did a quick test with a snare roll with a slowly increasing velocity. And sure enough, there was at least one spot where the tone clearly changes (more than it should) between two adjacent velocities. I don’t think this will ever be a problem in real-life use, at least not for me, but of course from a geeky tech perspective, I’d also like to know what is happening there. If I understood correctly from Peter’s earlier post, even the modeled drums use samples in some ways, so maybe we are hearing that?

[electro]

If I understood correctly from Peter’s earlier post, even the modeled drums use samples in some ways, so maybe we are hearing that?

Modeled sounds may be derived from analyzing samples, but may not include samples.

[Captain]

Modeled sounds may be derived from analyzing samples, but may not include samples.

From Peter's earlier post:

Thanks. Correction to my previous post, though, with regard to "nothing else than some mathematical equations". We are able to blend some samples with the modeling on the drums too where appropriate to achieve the best most realistic representation of the settings you choose. Sorry about that, was being too concise and missed a note about the progress of MODO DRUM as it moves toward release.

...which is slightly ambiguous, but the way I understand it, some/all modeled drums contain some sample components too. I have no problem with that (assuming I understood it correctly), whatever works and sounds good. But I just wish IK was more open and clear with what exactly is modeled, what is samples, and what is (possibly) a combination of both. There was a lot of confusion in the beginning, and seems it still isn't 100% clear...

[xoxos]

the way I understand it, some/all modeled drums contain some sample components too

probably not, i'd guess at most this would be spectral/cepstral data for materials, but not time information. (i've some guesses about what methods are used based on performance, but not the place to talk about it)

or these silly requests... a good instrument should focus on what the instrument does. you can kill an instrument with bloat. you want a layer, you add another midi route or something. once you got samples, then you want options for samples, then you want then you want then you want

i mean i'm aware of so much dsp that the list of things you could want is bloody endless

you think, "this instrument is for drums" and should do the entire drum parts for your work. i'm telling you, that's what the actual composition part you do is about. no one buys bloody knives that squirt out butter and jam. you see it you buy it it stops working because its moronic and made to appeal to greedy people with no clue. all greasy and clogged up with sticky poo. just understand teh whole knife, condiment ting

[xoxos]

you just want teh cake

AI will sort you right hahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaaha


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[cturner]

no one buys bloody knives that squirt out butter and jam.

Poetry.

[jamcat]

I think some people may be fundamentally misunderstanding what is going on with the snare. Those are not distinct velocity layers. Snare drums are made up of many different parts that rattle, once there is enough energy in the system to overcome their individual inertia.

What you are hearing is these different parts starting to come in at various activation energy levels. These values are going to be very specific. There isn't (or shouldn't be) any randomness in the mathematics modeling physics above the quantum level. The "randomness" that creates realism is going to come from differences in velocity and where the stick is striking the membrane, since you can never strike it in exactly the same way, in exactly the same place, with exactly the same force. This is why MODO randomizes the hits within the strike zone.

I don't know why Peter wrote a bunch of word salad instead of just explaining this. Of course we should keep in mind that IK Multimedia is an Italian company and it's pretty obvious English isn't Peter's first language, so cut him some slack.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Even though my last name is Italian, I was born and raised in the USA and English is my first language. I feel I explained some of the more complex aspects of MODO DRUM well enough for those I addressed to understand based on the response. Sorry you thought a thorough explanation (with reference to a CMU technical paper in one case) was too much of a "word salad". Thank you for your constructive criticism, though.

[jamcat]

Hello Peter! Apologies for assuming you were Italian. Honest mistake, but still very embarrassing.

Just trying to help. I didn't think the nonsense about the snare being just "5 velocity layers" was adequately dispelled back on pp. 25-28. I didn't see any explanation there that different components of the snare drum are becoming excited at different energy levels, increasing the complexity of the sound, which is what it sounds like to me in those Google Drive clips. Sorry if I missed it.

I do have some questions about MODO though, if you could answer!

1) Is there mic bleed? (That's probably the #1 feature that gives Superior and BFD their realism.)
2) Can you change the mic models the way you can in Amplitude?

3) What drumkit is the "Extreme" kit based on? (I have a pretty good idea of the others: Ludwig, Gretsch, Mapex, Tama, Yamaha)

4) The chrome snare in the DW North American Hard Rock Maple kit ("Rock Custom") looks like a model of a Supraphonic, and the black/brass snare in the Pearl Reference Pure kit ("Reference") looks like a model of a Black Beauty. Is that correct?

[Katzenberserker]

Just trying to help. I didn't think the nonsense about the snare being just "5 velocity layers" was adequately dispelled back on pp. 25-28. I didn't see any explanation there that different components of the snare drum are becoming excited at different energy levels, increasing the complexity of the sound, which is what it sounds like to me in those Google Drive clips. Sorry if I missed it.

Same here, just trying to help. If you're right, shouldn't different play styles (fast rolls vs. single hits for instance) excite the drum in different ways then? Hitting an already vibrating head, would sound differnt than one which is not moving, right?

I would wish for such an virtual instrument, especially if someone moddeled cymbals who behave like that. Or a snare with a wallet, that muffles soft strokes and starts to bounce around, when you hit it hard.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Thanks for the suggestions. I don't think this got posted but here's the "technique" video about snare ghost notes. It is from a playlist so if you want to see just the ghost note video itself, that will play next or you can choose to watch that first:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9n5cYX ... I0&index=5