Phase Plant released

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Instruments Discussion
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BONES wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:20 pmIf I have a gripe, it's that there isn't anywhere near enough variety in the filter styles. The new update has brought us some minor expansion but, to be honest, they don't go nearly far enough. The filter is very workmanlike - it does the job but it doesn't have a lot of character. It would be nice to see a few different filter models available, especially something with a little more bite.
I'm way to clueless when it comes to filter topologies & differences, but isn't most of it just different slope shapes and steepness, plus perhaps some movement of the parameters? For example when I hear "more bite" I immediately think of adding a short-lived, temporary boost to resonance and/or filter FM, or perhaps some modulation of the steepness of the filter curve, or drive? You can do it all using Envelope modulating respective parameters of Slice EQ snap-in.

Having said that, I'd love them to add more filter types obviously.
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DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
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"More bite" would be saturation of the circuit - the louder the oscillators get, the nastier the filter sounds. But there are plenty of other things that can be different, too, depending on how the filter is set up. e.g. A classic Moog ladder filter attenuates the bottom end as you increase the resonance, other filters do not do that. Some filters also have wider Q around the resonant peak, which gives them a smoother, fuller sound. That's why some filters are more highly regarded than others.
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BONES wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:32 am "More bite" would be saturation of the circuit - the louder the oscillators get, the nastier the filter sounds. But there are plenty of other things that can be different, too, depending on how the filter is set up. e.g. A classic Moog ladder filter attenuates the bottom end as you increase the resonance, other filters do not do that. Some filters also have wider Q around the resonant peak, which gives them a smoother, fuller sound. That's why some filters are more highly regarded than others.
...and my point is - if you know what "more biting" or "smoother" filter means in terms of technical features, then you can probably put one together by yourself :) I'm not saying you should, but in the meantime - until it's there - you probably can. That's what great about synths like PP or - I know you're not a fan - DAWs like Bitwig :)
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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BONES wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:58 am
DJErmac wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:45 amNothing at all made me want Pigments, neither 1 or 2, but Phaseplant was on my radar all along.
Was that purely based on the demo sounds you'd heard?
Well, not exactly the demo sounds : the presets actually. I always discover a synth with its presets. It's supposed (supposed!) to show what it can or can't do. You always, at least sonically hear what the synth is capable of. And no preset made me want to learn using Pigments. I personnaly think its sound isn't as defined, refined and crispy as PP's can be. And if we're talking possibilities, of course I believe PP blowns Pigments away.
I'm not yet a PP fanboy but I must say its sound is really, really sharp and clean, I love this. I've waited until the price is right, simply couldn't pass the PluginBoutique offer.
Please don’t read the above post. It’s a stupid one. Simply pass.

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sinemotor wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 10:56 pm This synth is insanely powerful.

The wavetable editor looks very deep and user friendly.
Can the User export his beloved Wavetables or is the Editor maybe not that User friendly?

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GRUMP wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:49 pm Can the User export his beloved Wavetables or is the Editor maybe not that User friendly?
Every created/imported/edited wavetable can be saved as flac or wav file... user friendly enough??? 8)

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DJErmac wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:19 pm
BONES wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:58 am
DJErmac wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:45 amNothing at all made me want Pigments, neither 1 or 2, but Phaseplant was on my radar all along.
Was that purely based on the demo sounds you'd heard?
Well, not exactly the demo sounds : the presets actually. I always discover a synth with its presets. It's supposed (supposed!) to show what it can or can't do. You always, at least sonically hear what the synth is capable of. And no preset made me want to learn using Pigments. I personnaly think its sound isn't as defined, refined and crispy as PP's can be. And if we're talking possibilities, of course I believe PP blowns Pigments away.
I'm not yet a PP fanboy but I must say its sound is really, really sharp and clean, I love this. I've waited until the price is right, simply couldn't pass the PluginBoutique offer.
Actually I thought most of the presets were lackluster at best but it does sound good for the most part.

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Trancit wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:54 pm
GRUMP wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:49 pm Can the User export his beloved Wavetables or is the Editor maybe not that User friendly?
Every created/imported/edited wavetable can be saved as flac or wav file... user friendly enough??? 8)
The Manual doesn´t even contain the Term "export", theres a Paragraph concerning saving Presets and Samples, .wav can not be found als well as flac. You´ll surely understand the resulting Reserves?

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ckam03 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:56 pm
DJErmac wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:19 pm
BONES wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:58 am
DJErmac wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:45 amNothing at all made me want Pigments, neither 1 or 2, but Phaseplant was on my radar all along.
Was that purely based on the demo sounds you'd heard?
Well, not exactly the demo sounds : the presets actually. I always discover a synth with its presets. It's supposed (supposed!) to show what it can or can't do. You always, at least sonically hear what the synth is capable of. And no preset made me want to learn using Pigments. I personnaly think its sound isn't as defined, refined and crispy as PP's can be. And if we're talking possibilities, of course I believe PP blowns Pigments away.
I'm not yet a PP fanboy but I must say its sound is really, really sharp and clean, I love this. I've waited until the price is right, simply couldn't pass the PluginBoutique offer.
Actually I thought most of the presets were lackluster at best but it does sound good for the most part.
Well, you're right, not showing a 169€ synth (and the other offers are simply crazy). But imo, when it's $99, now we're talking.
Please don’t read the above post. It’s a stupid one. Simply pass.

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GRUMP wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:01 pm
Trancit wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:54 pm
GRUMP wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:49 pm Can the User export his beloved Wavetables or is the Editor maybe not that User friendly?
Every created/imported/edited wavetable can be saved as flac or wav file... user friendly enough??? 8)
The Manual doesn´t even contain the Term "export", theres a Paragraph concerning saving Presets and Samples, .wav can not be found als well as flac. You´ll surely understand the resulting Reserves?
Sorry Grump... this is a reason for asking for sure... but perhaps next time without any innuendos...
Then I will response without any hint on that.. :tu:

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dionenoid wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:32 pm So cool to be able to use SnapHeap and Multipass inside Phaseplant. And some nice other improvements. This synth is getting better and better. :tu:
Multipass sells for $99, and supports Snapins only, if I'm not mistaken. Not so cool.

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Trancit wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:20 pm
GRUMP wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:01 pm
Trancit wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:54 pm
GRUMP wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:49 pm Can the User export his beloved Wavetables or is the Editor maybe not that User friendly?
Every created/imported/edited wavetable can be saved as flac or wav file... user friendly enough??? 8)
The Manual doesn´t even contain the Term "export", theres a Paragraph concerning saving Presets and Samples, .wav can not be found als well as flac. You´ll surely understand the resulting Reserves?
Sorry Grump... this is a reason for asking for sure... but perhaps next time without any innuendos...
Then I will response without any hint on that.. :tu:
Innu..what? Sry, but I really wonder why Companys Deliver Products without proper Manuals. That´s not what I´d call "Quality". I usually read the Manuals of interesting Gear on the Train and consider a Demo in the Evening then. I´d strongly recommend good Manuals and Descriptions because otherwise People like me will quickly get the Impression that the Tool doesn´t match the Requirements. You never have a second Chance to make a first good Impression ánd other Mothers have sexy Daughters, too ;-)

Thank you!°

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GRUMP wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:10 pm
Innu..what? Sry, but I really wonder why Companys Deliver Products without proper Manuals. That´s not what I´d call "Quality". I usually read the Manuals of interesting Gear on the Train and consider a Demo in the Evening then. I´d strongly recommend good Manuals and Descriptions because otherwise People like me will quickly get the Impression that the Tool doesn´t match the Requirements. You never have a second Chance to make a first good Impression ánd other Mothers have sexy Daughters, too ;-)

Thank you!°
Hmmm, I am more interested in the product than in the manual... did I ever used a manual... not sure... 8)

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BONES wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:20 pm
rj0 wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:38 pmTrying the 10-day trial base version, with just the free snapins. Being the base version, almost all of the presets are full of locked features/snapins.

As a result, after a while it starts feeling more like a demo than a base version. While it's clear that one can do a fair amount with just those free features, I'm beginning to get the impression that buying the base version would just lead to frustration more than anything.
They are just effects, you don't need them at all. You can use all the other effects you already have as insert and send effects in your host application. All the important bits are there, you can make whatever sounds you like without any of the snap-ins. I went through and disabled a heap of snap-ins I don't have in a few patches and it hardly made any difference at all. To be honest, most of it feels like lazy sound design to me. I've already made heaps of good, usable patches without anything more than I have.

If I have a gripe, it's that there isn't anywhere near enough variety in the filter styles. The new update has brought us some minor expansion but, to be honest, they don't go nearly far enough. The filter is very workmanlike - it does the job but it doesn't have a lot of character. It would be nice to see a few different filter models available, especially something with a little more bite.
Agreed, on most all of the above. Effects are unnecessary in a base sound (i.e. lazy sound design), and probably should generally be added in the host as send effects (besides, stand-alone VST effects tend to be much more sophisticated, and better in general). Presets should be evaluated with the effects off. (Also agree on the limited and generic filter styles.)

The base PP synth version with the limited free effects is very capable, with a lot to like, and certainly interesting, and worth considering if the annoyances can be ignored/overcome.

The main annoyance (as many have of us has noted) is that we tend to audition a synth's presets for what a synth is truly capable of, with the general assumption that the effects come along with the synth. In this case, most of the effects don't, so truly auditioning the presets really means disabling each of the effects that will cost extra to buy. That's both a real inspiration kill and more than a bit tedious. Of 94 bass presets and 73 pad presets (167 presets total, hopefully representative, tired of auditioning after that), only 2 bass presets didn't include extra cost effects (using the PP base version). It almost makes one want to delete all the factory presets, but that's a bit drastic (and a terrible loss of inspiration). If one wants the full sounds/capabilities provided by the factory presets, PP gets way more expensive than the base version.

The other buzz kill is that of PP Lanes, Snap Heap, and Multipass. All of those are for effects, and can't easily be replicated by using Send effects in the DAW, and all of those, including the externally realizable Snap Heap and Multipass, only support Snapins (not VSTs). Suffice it to say that with minimal free Snapins in the base version, those very nice capabilities of PP are reduced considerably (while Snap Heap is included, Multipass is actually a $99 add-on not included in the base version).

The question I'm struggling with is whether the base version with those annoyances is worth it. Still on the fence.
Last edited by rj0 on Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Trancit wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:14 pm
GRUMP wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:10 pm
Innu..what? Sry, but I really wonder why Companys Deliver Products without proper Manuals. That´s not what I´d call "Quality". I usually read the Manuals of interesting Gear on the Train and consider a Demo in the Evening then. I´d strongly recommend good Manuals and Descriptions because otherwise People like me will quickly get the Impression that the Tool doesn´t match the Requirements. You never have a second Chance to make a first good Impression ánd other Mothers have sexy Daughters, too ;-)

Thank you!°
Hmmm, I am more interested in the product than in the manual... did I ever used a manual... not sure... 8)
There are billions of Options out there today so I had to find a way to save some time. Requirements Analysis is the Key. And you´ll never have the time to ask every Stakeholder personally and examine every f*** Element in the Infrastructure ;-)

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