Unfiltered Audio Lion

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I really want to love Lion more than I have been able to. I think of it as, like Massive X, Omnisphere and Cypher as a preset-maker’s synth. Lion and these others have both a very deep engine and a very good way of presenting macro controls to the player. But the cost of this is that the sound creation and tweaking is complex and abstract... not very immediate. So a well made preset with macros set up and scaled properly can provide a lot of variati9n and control and THAT process is really immediate and satisfying, but getting to that point requires really sitting with the synth in a sound design focused mode.

I think this kind of synth (zebra is another good example) is great for people that program and sell presets but less attractive to someone that wants to be more immediate with sound design as a part of composition.

I’m ambivalent. I’ve made about 20 patches with Lion that I like and I’ve hooked up macros carefully to be able to build variations on them, but for the level of work to get there I have been more attracted to a blank slate modular model instead... like Bitwigs Grid.

Lion is a good MPE synth with lots of oscillator variation though, and that is cool and puts it in a niche of its own. Any other MPE+Lion folks here? Maybe we could trade some patches.

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Noumena wrote: Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:45 pm Any other MPE+Lion folks here? Maybe we could trade some patches.
I'm an MPE+Lion folk. I have only had roughly 30 minutes with it so far, and it doesn't look like I will have a ton of time until I get my current project finished (likely will take until the new year) but I am interested in diving deeper into both this and Cypher2. If I come up with anything decent I'll shoot you a PM.
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Re: Cypher2, there are some serious bugs with it at this time that make modulation mapping (including MPE modulation) pretty problematic. I found it to be a significant investment in time to get the point that I started to understand how it works only to find that I was banging my head against the wall with this new set of bugs. Just FYI.

Likewise I would be very interested in finding out what UA’s plans are with Lion and how it does gainstaging internally — it feels like either I really don’t get it (ie everything is way to quiet or way too distorted) or something may be changed with the architecture.

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When I assign the mod wheel to cutoff with a cable, is there a way to make it so I can use the full range of the filter? Even if the slider is all the way up for the mod wheel, it only turns the cutoff about 1/4 of the way at most. Maybe there's a trick to it. The only way I could get that to work how I wanted was to assign 3 or 4 MW outputs to the cutoff input. If you only use one it doesn't let you use the full range of the cutoff.

Also, no MIDI learn? I asked there support about this and they just mentioned something about automation in my DAW instead. I want to easily control it with my keyboard (like with u-he synths, or others like Sylenth1, etc.).

A 2nd filter for parallel and series would also be great.

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Examigan wrote: Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:40 pm When I assign the mod wheel to cutoff with a cable, is there a way to make it so I can use the full range of the filter? Even if the slider is all the way up for the mod wheel, it only turns the cutoff about 1/4 of the way at most. Maybe there's a trick to it. The only way I could get that to work how I wanted was to assign 3 or 4 MW outputs to the cutoff input. If you only use one it doesn't let you use the full range of the cutoff.
Turn up the AMP control on the MIDI In Modulator. This affects the depth of all of the modulation outputs to make it more consistent with the other modulators.

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Thanks! It works like a charm now.

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Noumena wrote: Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:45 pm I think this kind of synth (zebra is another good example) is great for people that program and sell presets but less attractive to someone that wants to be more immediate with sound design as a part of composition.

I’m ambivalent. I’ve made about 20 patches with Lion that I like and I’ve hooked up macros carefully to be able to build variations on them, but for the level of work to get there I have been more attracted to a blank slate modular model instead... like Bitwigs Grid.

Lion is a good MPE synth with lots of oscillator variation though, and that is cool and puts it in a niche of its own. Any other MPE+Lion folks here? Maybe we could trade some patches.
I'm the dork that loves programming in a good portion of the synths you mentioned, Zebra, Cypher etc. The semi modular approach just seems to work for me, I get more out of Zebra than I do out of Ace or Bazile or Reaktor or...

I'm deep into hardware disk issues and troubleshooting a not working MIDI Quest 12 Editor but I do plan on diving into Lion for MPE work. I like the distortion or grind in it better than the other MPE synths I own like Falcon, Cypher etc.

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I'm finally here in the LION chat.
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Audilepsy wrote: Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:39 am I'm finally here in the LION chat.
Perhaps you can help me, I asked this a while back but did not get an answer.

How do you retrigger an envelope in mono mode with each note input (while sustaining the notes)?

I think it must have to do with the Trigger input of the envelope, but connecting the Gate from Midi Input does not work. Is there some other way to send note input signals to the Trigger on the envelope?

In Poly modes if the envelope is set to mono it does not retrigger with each note input, but if the envelope is set to poly then it retriggers with each note input up to the the level of Poly mode LION is set to (2 retriggers in Poly 2, 4 retriggers in Poly 4, etc.).

In Mono mode (and Legato) changing the envelope from mono to poly doesn't seem to do anything.


Edit: maybe I can explain that better. I want to trigger an envelope with note input in mono. i can trigger it with an LFO, but not with a new note input. Does anyone know if this is possible?

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evo2slo wrote: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:13 pm
Audilepsy wrote: Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:39 am I'm finally here in the LION chat.
Perhaps you can help me, I asked this a while back but did not get an answer.

How do you retrigger an envelope in mono mode with each note input (while sustaining the notes)?

I think it must have to do with the Trigger input of the envelope, but connecting the Gate from Midi Input does not work. Is there some other way to send note input signals to the Trigger on the envelope?

In Poly modes if the envelope is set to mono it does not retrigger with each note input, but if the envelope is set to poly then it retriggers with each note input up to the the level of Poly mode LION is set to (2 retriggers in Poly 2, 4 retriggers in Poly 4, etc.).

In Mono mode (and Legato) changing the envelope from mono to poly doesn't seem to do anything.


Edit: maybe I can explain that better. I want to trigger an envelope with note input in mono. i can trigger it with an LFO, but not with a new note input. Does anyone know if this is possible?
I'll experiment tonight and see if I can figure it out.
Edit: Okay, this is a bug. I'll let the devs know. Good find!
Sound Designer | Bug Squasher | Sound Nerd
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thelizard wrote: Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:41 pm
Examigan wrote: Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:40 pm When I assign the mod wheel to cutoff with a cable, is there a way to make it so I can use the full range of the filter? Even if the slider is all the way up for the mod wheel, it only turns the cutoff about 1/4 of the way at most. Maybe there's a trick to it. The only way I could get that to work how I wanted was to assign 3 or 4 MW outputs to the cutoff input. If you only use one it doesn't let you use the full range of the cutoff.
Turn up the AMP control on the MIDI In Modulator. This affects the depth of all of the modulation outputs to make it more consistent with the other modulators.
I don't suppose you guys are working on more presets are you?!? :wink:

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Okay, today we finally solved the filter oversampling issues. We were doing all of the interpolation correctly, but at high oversampling rates there was a precision issue. This took forever to find, which is why we've been in public beta hotfix limbo.

We're posting new public betas on Friday, and PA will work on making it an official release shortly thereafter.

Things that are already in the upcoming release:
-Option to disable the output saturator/limiter.
-Option to randomize the phase of each voice on a unison stack.
-Fixes for oscillators not resetting phases correctly on new notes.

Things I'm targeting this week:
-The annoying thwip that sometimes occurs when you use a voice for the first time.
-Option to not auto-reset modulators on new notes in Legato mode.
-Fix for the rare crash when changing presets that have different voice numbers.
EDIT: Gonna try to take a look at Windows scrolling so that you won't need a mouse with sideways scroll clicks.

Two of the three listed options above should be the intended behavior, but we're making them optional because there are over 600 presets in the wild.

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wonderful! thank you!

btw,
last satureday i had a hard crash with lion
does it help to send crash logs?
and when yes, whereto ?

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thelizard wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:24 am Okay, today we finally solved the filter oversampling issues. We were doing all of the interpolation correctly, but at high oversampling rates there was a precision issue. This took forever to find, which is why we've been in public beta hotfix limbo.

We're posting new public betas on Friday, and PA will work on making it an official release shortly thereafter.

Things that are already in the upcoming release:
-Option to disable the output saturator/limiter. :party: :party: :party: :party: :party:
-Option to randomize the phase of each voice on a unison stack. :party: :party: :party: :party: :party:
-Fixes for oscillators not resetting phases correctly on new notes. :party: :party: :party: :party: :party:

Things I'm targeting this week:
-The annoying thwip that sometimes occurs when you use a voice for the first time. :tu:
-Option to not auto-reset modulators on new notes in Legato mode. :tu:
-Fix for the rare crash when changing presets that have different voice numbers.
EDIT: Gonna try to take a look at Windows scrolling so that you won't need a mouse with sideways scroll clicks.

Two of the three listed options above should be the intended behavior, but we're making them optional because there are over 600 presets in the wild.

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muki wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:21 am wonderful! thank you!

btw,
last satureday i had a hard crash with lion
does it help to send crash logs?
and when yes, whereto ?
Our release builds have stripped symbols, so crash logs are a bit tough to parse. It's actually quicker for us to try to recreate the behavior around the crash. Were you switching presets when it crashed? If so, I'm pretty sure I've identified where that crash occurs.

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