Unfiltered Audio Lion

[Phil B]

Following up on this: this is now fixed for the next beta. This was happening with all UA plugins, not just LION. It occurred in DAWs where a loop brace was enabled and the start point was the very beginning of a track.

Awesome!! Thanks!

[Dissentuk]

Hm, I'm getting very punchy envelopes in Lion -- if you set the ADSR decay to the maximum exponential decrease curve and then set the sustain level pretty low (below 50%) it gets quite punchy.

Another point I'd make is that - with apologies to the recent controversial synthesizer that is marketed as being modular but isn't (although I really do like Massive X!) - Lion truly is semi-modular. It's very easy to set up signal flows that are in between a deterministic synth and a modular synth. In particular, random triggering of amplitude envelopes with cycling envelopes hooked to various parameters is a lot of fun; this instrument will play itself if you let it.

Heres a simple basic raw example of the punchy/snappy envelopes using massive x with monark 4pole filter(you can make a similar sound on many synths).....


https://soundcloud.com/philsback-1/massive-x


and this is a close as I could get to that in Lion...


https://soundcloud.com/philsback-1/ua-lion

im going to assuming im doing something wrong but I tried messing around with the exponential mods and playing with curves and this is the snappiest I could get it?

see if you can do better its just a really basic raw sawtooth wave with LP 24 filter and making it pluck which 0 sustain and short decay. as simple as it gets!

If I throw on some reverb I can start to hide differences but in raw form its quite different


https://soundcloud.com/philsback-1/massive-x-reverb
https://soundcloud.com/philsback-1/ua-lion-reverb

Massive X was a complete disaster is so many ways but one thing they certainly didn't mess up was the sound quality of the filters/envelopes and effects. Seems to me like UA got everything right the Massive X got wrong but didn't give enough love to the filters/envelopes.

Although i'm hoping you can show me i'm doing something wrong and all is good!

[amwk]

Following up on this: this is now fixed for the next beta. This was happening with all UA plugins, not just LION. It occurred in DAWs where a loop brace was enabled and the start point was the very beginning of a track.

Great! Thank you very much!!
So I assume that then you don't need me to send you my findings and screen capture videos anymore, right?

[Monkey Man]

I'd love to see a preference for patch-cable widths (thickness).

They're tough-to-see if your eyesight isn't great.

[graspee]

I tried for a long time to reproduce Dissentuk's massive x pluck in Lion and I couldn't manage it either. I got about as close as they got but it always lacked the same meaty twang of the massive x version.

I tried using an ADSR on the envelope; I also tried an AD and even experimented with LFOs on it.

It doesn't seem to be that the envelope etc. are not "snappy" enough- they go pretty clicky snappy (technical term) so I'm left wondering if it's just a characteristic of the filter.

I'm just a noob though so anyone who works it out please tell us!

[Monkey Man]

Try layering it with a white-noise attack portion, either in LION or using another synth.

I don't know the particular sound you're talking about, but this "psychoacoustic trick" would be my first port of call.

[graspee]

Try layering it with a white-noise attack portion, either in LION or using another synth.

I don't know the particular sound you're talking about, but this "psychoacoustic trick" would be my first port of call.

It's funny you should say that as, no joke I was thinking about this a few minutes' ago. It may well work but it wouldn't solve the mystery of why enveloping the cutoff on a 2 pole LP filter sounds different on massive x and lion.

[Monkey Man]

Yeah, it won't solve the mystery.

I meant to also say, regarding the white-noise portion, to set the attack to short (probably full-on), remove the sustain and release times and set the filter to taste. Fiddle with the decay as that'll likely be where you're able to tailor the right length to do the job without being obvious.

Self-evident if you're a synth guy, of course.

[bob swans]

Here's another heavy hitter code, I emailed support last week about
not getting one and they came back today.
I decided I have plenty going on already and will
probably grab this a bit further down the road, so I don't need it right now.

LION-99-INTRO-PXTJ


Be sure to let everyone know once it's gone

[CromoFX]

Here's another heavy hitter code, I emailed support last week about
not getting one and they came back today.
I decided I have plenty going on already and will
probably grab this a bit further down the road, so I don't need it right now.

LION-99-INTRO-PXTJ


Be sure to let everyone know once it's gone

Wow, thanks a bunch for the code, Bob!!!
Worked for my best buddy!
Now we both can exchange presets - working the LION out of us ...
Again ... thanks a lot.

Frank

[Dissentuk]

Try layering it with a white-noise attack portion, either in LION or using another synth.

I don't know the particular sound you're talking about, but this "psychoacoustic trick" would be my first port of call.

Its a good trick to layer white noise but i was just testing how punchy lion was with a single sawtooth wave and basic LP24 filter. No tricks here

Heres an example using massive x....

https://soundcloud.com/philsback-1/massive-x

I dont know if its the filters or the envelopes or the settings but UA Lion doesnt seem to be able to do a basic snappy pluck sound. Which is a shame because the rest of the synth is amazing!

[graspee]

Did you originally say 2 pole filter? Your post says 4 pole and LP24 now. I was trying with the 12.

[graspee]

BTW bug report: with fl studio 20.5.1 when I save a project containing Lion it remembers effects but it replaces both osc with "Forms".

[Dissentuk]

Did you originally say 2 pole filter? Your post says 4 pole and LP24 now. I was trying with the 12.

I used 4 pole monark filter in massive x and the Ladder LP24 in lion.

They are both 4 pole 24db low pass filters based upon the "mini moog" ladder topology

and the 24 references the slope of the cut off which is maybe the confusion?. It doesn't help that I forgot to write "Ladder" aswell! although theres only one LP24 filter in Lion.

I think u will find its still impossible get any snap or punch. try it in massive x and your be there in 2mins!


im happy to post presets or midi tracks and project in reaper/bitwig if you want to see settings

[graspee]

This is my attempt
https://vocaroo.com/i/s1zcziKixfWG

I know it's not good, I'm just learning.