Unfiltered Audio Lion

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
thelizard
KVRian
1260 posts since 6 Jul, 2004

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:35 am

yellowmix wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:20 am
thelizard wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:56 am
Here's an abandoned version of the manual. I restarted it from scratch with a completely new format, hyperlinks, table of contents, better typesetting, etc. That one's not ready to share yet. However, if you want a list of the oscillator/mix modes and details, this will give you a great idea of what is inside: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xfm7f72nxdg54 ... l.pdf?dl=0
Thanks for the information, kills a lot of speculation. Based on the signal flow chart, it looks like the BYOME FX are per-voice, but have a global gain at the output mixer? If so, that is fantastic.
The BYOME FX are not per-voice, but this was a very conscious design decision. We tested per-voice BYOME effects early on, and we came to a few conclusions:
1) Only some of the effects really sounded good per-voice, namely distortions and filters. The rest would sound like mush, or would sound not entirely different from master effects.
2) Adding in the ability to toggle per-voice effects really complicated the interface.
3) Per-voice FX are computationally much more expensive.

As a design, many of the oscillator modes are built around the advantages of per-voice FX. For instance, Subliminal is our interpretation of per-voice Dent FX, and Circuit Bent is per-voice Bitcrushing effects. Additionally, the Filter and the Mixer section are per-voice, and those offer many of those sounds as well.

thelizard
KVRian
1260 posts since 6 Jul, 2004

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:38 am

graspee wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:05 am
I'm kind of stunned it's not a wavetable synth. I'm still trying to process that from a state of shock.
Hah! Yeah, the LION vs. Massive X/Serum/etc. threads started before the interface was even finished.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
51650 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:45 am

easy there tiger...

yellowmix
KVRian
1269 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:45 am

thelizard wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:35 am
The BYOME FX are not per-voice, but this was a very conscious design decision.
Thanks for clarifying. The chart has "LION voice" (singular) going to BYOME. Plural "voices" would make it more clear.

The decision is perfectly reasonable and I am not disappointed in any way. The oscillator modes sound very exciting.

Fernando Carvalho
KVRist
174 posts since 5 Jul, 2004

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:54 am

It is looking pretty good. I miss a per voice comb filter, the one in byome is nice. I miss some kind of physical modelling oscilators too.

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Teawhyelleare
KVRist
78 posts since 15 Dec, 2016

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:11 am

thelizard wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:56 am
Well, the cat's out of the bag :lol:

Fine, this isn't the pun thread. I'm excited that I can finally start sharing details.

Here's an abandoned version of the manual. I restarted it from scratch with a completely new format, hyperlinks, table of contents, better typesetting, etc. That one's not ready to share yet. However, if you want a list of the oscillator/mix modes and details, this will give you a great idea of what is inside: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xfm7f72nxdg54 ... l.pdf?dl=0

Every oscillator mode has unison depth over every control, except for the Superstacks. Those modes are designed as optimized unison modes.

Every oscillator mode also has an optional Stereo mode. In each mode, the algorithm is tweaked for wide stereo output. The width of this can be tamed or exaggerated with the BYOME row's Stereo Image effect.

There isn't a wavetable mode. Frankly, the market is jam-packed with wavetable synths, and we're not interested in adding another. Serum, Massive X, Europa, Hive 2, and Ableton's Wavetable are all very good implementations, just to name a few.

Our main design goal for LION was to create a low-floor, high-ceiling synth where people can create their own presets very quickly just by turning one or two knobs. However, with the many modes, the BYOME row, and the modulation system, the presets can be extremely detailed and complex. We didn't want to create a synth where people would get lost on Envelope Tab 5, the voicing tab, the micro-option to enable some esoteric behavior, etc. In that regard, LION was designed without tabs, alternate screens, or layout changes. Everything is visible on one screen, and all oscillators, filters, and mixers share a unified interface design.
------

Not listed in the manual: filter modes.

LP/HP/BP12: The filters from Indent/Dent/BYOME's Basic Filter, now with an optional DRIVE control (All filter modes have an optional DRIVE toggle for non-linear processing along with an INVERT button to mirror the topology).

MS LP/HP: Sallen-Key (MS-20) style, lots of resonance and aggression

Acid Filter (LP): 303-style. Very nasally and squishy

Ladder LP/HP/BP 12 and 24: Moog-style. Different model than the one in BYOME to accommodate all of the different slopes and topologies.

SVF LP12/HP24/BP24: OBX style

------

Someone mentioned "Braids + BYOME". Yes, a good way to think of the workflow is "2 x Braids + Warps + Filter + BYOME". We didn't use any source code from Braids/Plaits. The only two models that are pretty direct versions of the Braids models are Ringo (similar to Triple Ring from Braids) and VOSIM. VOSIM was built using a recipe from the SOS Synth Secrets column, but with some added FM features of our design. "SumSyn" is based off of a Summation Synthesis algorithm listed by Stephen McCaul of Noise Engineering. In the mixer section, "Compare" uses a few of the comparison algorithms in Mutable's Warps, but rewritten for our codebase, and most of the "Terrain" algorithms were generously shared with us by Aaron Anderson (http://www.aandersonportfolio.com/wave- ... sizer.html), a PhD student at our alma mater, MAT @ UCSB. These credits are all listed in the new manual. Emilie Gillet has been a huge influence on our design goals, so I want to make sure that she gets proper credit, but I also want to make sure that people are aware that this isn't a Mutable clone.

------

Finally, what does "LION" mean? We've joked internally that LION is a recursive backronym, "LION Intermodulated Oscillator Network," which is an accurate description of the behavior, but that wasn't the intent. Really, LION is a visual pun. LI is a square wave, O is a sine wave, and N is a sawtooth wave.

Anyway, back to preset design!
Thanks for sharing all of this :D I am so stoked for this release! Reading through the manual, which is just as enjoyable and helpful as of the other UA manuals, I am confident that most of my expectations and hopes have been fulfilled or exceeded (so far). Thanks for including MPE and microtuning support too! Really looking forward to giving this beast a run and supporting you fantastic chaps with another instant purchase :tu:

Any word on wide mode? Also, the PA website say that a trial is available through their installation manager, but this doesn't seem to be true. Am I missing something?

graspee
KVRist
91 posts since 1 Jan, 2018

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:14 am

Yeah, it would be good to know when the demo is coming since all the official sources say "now" and it isn't.
Last edited by graspee on Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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cturner
KVRian
579 posts since 7 Dec, 2009 from GWB

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:21 am

I think you might want to prepare yourself for that being website copy written before UA decided to postpone LION release for a month to concentrate on BYOME/TRIAD bug-squashing. Or perhaps it’ll show up on Monday morning Santa Cruz time. ;-)
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graspee
KVRist
91 posts since 1 Jan, 2018

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:30 am

cturner wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:21 am
I think you might want to prepare yourself for that being website copy written before UA decided to postpone LION release for a month to concentrate on BYOME/TRIAD bug-squashing. Or perhaps it’ll show up on Monday morning Santa Cruz time. ;-)
It was a promotional email too: "Launch Scheduled For August - Demos Online Now!"

edit: I've just realised they meant the audio demos and not in fact ... a demo.

lwj
KVRist
262 posts since 3 Feb, 2018

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:13 pm

I’m not that technical but in between superoscillators and dent shapers.. this thing is gonna be loud as hell :)

The section on noise had me laughing for some reason, especially this one:
“This mode provides an extremely traditional noise source”
I don’t know what that’s so funny.

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Julien Unison
KVRist
436 posts since 9 Oct, 2006

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:51 pm

"extremely traditional" >>> we can easily say that's an oxymoron.

https://examples.yourdictionary.com/exa ... orons.html
U N I S O N : shoegaze/electronic wall of sound with heavenly voice
https://soundcloud.com/weareunison / https://www.facebook.com/unison666 / https://weareunison.com/

perpetual3
KVRian
982 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:51 pm

Julien Unison wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:51 pm
"extremely traditional" >>> we can easily say that's an oxymoron.

https://examples.yourdictionary.com/exa ... orons.html
Uh, sure “we” can say “extremely traditional,” just like we can say very traditional, somewhat traditional, not very traditional.

Greenstorm33
KVRian
632 posts since 27 Apr, 2012

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:56 pm

No, you can't say it. I'm calling the probably-incorrect-pedant police.
Softsynth collector and electronic music enthusiast.
"Destruction is the work of an afternoon. Creation is the work of a lifetime."

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Michael L
KVRAF
2863 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from The End of The World as We Knowit

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:01 pm

I love the idea of categorising noise by era: traditional noise vs contemporary noise; or by genre: jazz noise, hip-hop noise; and then add modifiers: extremely traditional noise, moderately contemporary noise; and then mix them up: slightly traditional doom metal noise. Synth developers take notice!!
He is a letter to everyone
You open it
It says Live

perpetual3
KVRian
982 posts since 28 Sep, 2012

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:39 pm

Greenstorm33 wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:56 pm
No, you can't say it. I'm calling the probably-incorrect-pedant police.
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