Unfiltered Audio Lion

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
25228 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:48 am

I expect to see huge discounts for those of us who own BYOME & TRIAD, but will wait and see. I have no issues with PA's sales policy. They have provided me with so many awesome plugins at good prices (via coupons, heavy hitters, etc) ... I now (happily) use their stuff in every project.

jens
KVRAF
19710 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:23 am

Michael L wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:42 am
I am curious if it's a better workflow to just put BYOME after whatever wavetable synth you already know how to use.
:lol: :dog:

It certainly won't be at all. ;-)

WasteLand
KVRist
371 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:44 am

i mainly am wondering if you own softube modular (with all modules), voltage modular and reaktor 6.3 (full) with the 4 toybox audio packs, and the unfiltered audio euro rack pack... if this modular synth can do things i can't already do. chanches are not small, because, softube modular - voltage modular -reaktor 6.3 brings all different, and all great results.

EDIT: and i hope there will be discount.. if you own byome, triad, specops...
win 10 pro; cubase 10.5 pro, live 10 suite (+push 2), reaper, arturia V collection 6, reason 10, maschine (mk3+jam), korg collection, komplete 11 ultimate, softube modular, VM and many more..
https://soundcloud.com/sada-exposada

yellowmix
KVRian
1398 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:45 am

Michael L wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:42 am
I am curious if it's a better workflow to just put BYOME after whatever wavetable synth you already know how to use.
Depends if the FX are per-voice or not. If not, then yeah, slap BYOME or Triad after any synth. But you also lose MIDI performance modulation and synchronized modulation requires triggering.

But the magic doesn't seem to be solely from the FX. The generators have many modes (classic, FM, stacks, granular, simple, noise as top-level categories), as does the oscillator mixer (xfades, min-max, ring mod, compare, terrain, bitter, ash) and filter. So depending on how those interact and sound, especially with the modulation modules, it remains to be seen how special this is.

I'm liking what I see.

gaf_thit
KVRian
612 posts since 28 Sep, 2012 from Norway

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:52 am

It would be cool if Lion was patchable with their diverse fx plugins... Like a super modular... make it so!
Please

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DJErmac
KVRian
906 posts since 25 Apr, 2009 from France

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:05 am

I'm not really blown away by the audio examples... Actually some are simply awful.

I'm sure I'll get the synth anyway because all indicates that it's going to be a winner, but what were they thinking with those sound demos ? Not the most musical sounding I've heard, and not the most impressive either.

jens
KVRAF
19710 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:32 am

yellowmix wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:45 am
Michael L wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:42 am
I am curious if it's a better workflow to just put BYOME after whatever wavetable synth you already know how to use.
Depends if the FX are per-voice or not. If not, then yeah, slap BYOME or Triad after any synth. But you also lose MIDI performance modulation and synchronized modulation requires triggering.
Not quite sure what you mean with "MIDI performance modulation" and "synchronized modulation requires triggering" - if you look at the screenshot, you'll notice that simple enough the whole modulation section is for everything from the oscillators to the effects. splitting that up will lead it to cease existing - it's impossible - simple as that. The whole sometimes is really more than the sum of its parts.

Greenstorm33
KVRian
633 posts since 27 Apr, 2012

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:33 am

DJErmac wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:05 am
I'm not really blown away by the audio examples... Actually some are simply awful.

I'm sure I'll get the synth anyway because all indicates that it's going to be a winner, but what were they thinking with those sound demos ? Not the most musical sounding I've heard, and not the most impressive either.
Yeah, the demos definitely didn't sell me on it. I think whether I buy it will mostly depend on what the more unique oscillator modes and the osc mix modes can do. Having an integrated BYOME is cool too I guess but as others have said in the end not that different than putting BYOME after another synth and saving it as a DAW preset.
Softsynth collector and electronic music enthusiast.
"Destruction is the work of an afternoon. Creation is the work of a lifetime."

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
6791 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:47 am

The teaser video just made me wonder where the wide mode is. I believe LION is supposed to have a wide mode on launch, and the video would've been wise to include less horizontal scrolling IMO.

Greenstorm33
KVRian
633 posts since 27 Apr, 2012

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:55 am

Well it's not launching until August so I guess they've got time to implement it if they haven't already.
Softsynth collector and electronic music enthusiast.
"Destruction is the work of an afternoon. Creation is the work of a lifetime."

thelizard
KVRian
1290 posts since 6 Jul, 2004

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:56 am

Well, the cat's out of the bag :lol:

Fine, this isn't the pun thread. I'm excited that I can finally start sharing details.

Here's an abandoned version of the manual. I restarted it from scratch with a completely new format, hyperlinks, table of contents, better typesetting, etc. That one's not ready to share yet. However, if you want a list of the oscillator/mix modes and details, this will give you a great idea of what is inside: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xfm7f72nxdg54 ... l.pdf?dl=0

Every oscillator mode has unison depth over every control, except for the Superstacks. Those modes are designed as optimized unison modes.

Every oscillator mode also has an optional Stereo mode. In each mode, the algorithm is tweaked for wide stereo output. The width of this can be tamed or exaggerated with the BYOME row's Stereo Image effect.

There isn't a wavetable mode. Frankly, the market is jam-packed with wavetable synths, and we're not interested in adding another. Serum, Massive X, Europa, Hive 2, and Ableton's Wavetable are all very good implementations, just to name a few.

Our main design goal for LION was to create a low-floor, high-ceiling synth where people can create their own presets very quickly just by turning one or two knobs. However, with the many modes, the BYOME row, and the modulation system, the presets can be extremely detailed and complex. We didn't want to create a synth where people would get lost on Envelope Tab 5, the voicing tab, the micro-option to enable some esoteric behavior, etc. In that regard, LION was designed without tabs, alternate screens, or layout changes. Everything is visible on one screen, and all oscillators, filters, and mixers share a unified interface design.
------

Not listed in the manual: filter modes.

LP/HP/BP12: The filters from Indent/Dent/BYOME's Basic Filter, now with an optional DRIVE control (All filter modes have an optional DRIVE toggle for non-linear processing along with an INVERT button to mirror the topology).

MS LP/HP: Sallen-Key (MS-20) style, lots of resonance and aggression

Acid Filter (LP): 303-style. Very nasally and squishy

Ladder LP/HP/BP 12 and 24: Moog-style. Different model than the one in BYOME to accommodate all of the different slopes and topologies.

SVF LP12/HP24/BP24: OBX style

------

Someone mentioned "Braids + BYOME". Yes, a good way to think of the workflow is "2 x Braids + Warps + Filter + BYOME". We didn't use any source code from Braids/Plaits. The only two models that are pretty direct versions of the Braids models are Ringo (similar to Triple Ring from Braids) and VOSIM. VOSIM was built using a recipe from the SOS Synth Secrets column, but with some added FM features of our design. "SumSyn" is based off of a Summation Synthesis algorithm listed by Stephen McCaul of Noise Engineering. In the mixer section, "Compare" uses a few of the comparison algorithms in Mutable's Warps, but rewritten for our codebase, and most of the "Terrain" algorithms were generously shared with us by Aaron Anderson (http://www.aandersonportfolio.com/wave- ... sizer.html), a PhD student at our alma mater, MAT @ UCSB. These credits are all listed in the new manual. Emilie Gillet has been a huge influence on our design goals, so I want to make sure that she gets proper credit, but I also want to make sure that people are aware that this isn't a Mutable clone.

------

Finally, what does "LION" mean? We've joked internally that LION is a recursive backronym, "LION Intermodulated Oscillator Network," which is an accurate description of the behavior, but that wasn't the intent. Really, LION is a visual pun. LI is a square wave, O is a sine wave, and N is a sawtooth wave.

Anyway, back to preset design!

Noumena
KVRist
108 posts since 4 May, 2019

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:03 am

I like what I see there -- and full MPE support with what looks to be some interesting scaling and routing implementations is very cool. With this and Bitwig Grid coming so close together it feels like heaven.

The best thing about BYOME, imo, is the macros and the way that you can attenuate and control them. Making a preset is one thing, but making a preset with 1-8 controls that each can control many parameters via modulators and fine-grained attenuators is awesome. My fave thing to do with Byome is to map pitch shifting to a knob and then make the whole knobs range 1/2 a semitone into a delay. I've been using this kind of technique with Bitwig Grid and will be happy to have another instrument that works like that.

graspee
KVRist
93 posts since 1 Jan, 2018

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:05 am

I'm kind of stunned it's not a wavetable synth. I'm still trying to process that from a state of shock.

yellowmix
KVRian
1398 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:16 am

jens wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:32 am
Not quite sure what you mean with "MIDI performance modulation" and "synchronized modulation requires triggering" - if you look at the screenshot, you'll notice that simple enough the whole modulation section is for everything from the oscillators to the effects. splitting that up will lead it to cease existing - it's impossible - simple as that. The whole sometimes is really more than the sum of its parts.
I was responding to whether BYOME/Triad + any synth would have a better workflow than LION. Byome/Triad cannot be triggered by or modulated with MIDI (e.g., keytracking, velocity, channel pressure, etc..), which would undeniably impact the workflow. I'm not sure what else you're talking about.

yellowmix
KVRian
1398 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo

Re: Unfiltered Audio LION: the thread

Post Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:20 am

thelizard wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:56 am
Here's an abandoned version of the manual. I restarted it from scratch with a completely new format, hyperlinks, table of contents, better typesetting, etc. That one's not ready to share yet. However, if you want a list of the oscillator/mix modes and details, this will give you a great idea of what is inside: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xfm7f72nxdg54 ... l.pdf?dl=0
Thanks for the information, kills a lot of speculation. Based on the signal flow chart, it looks like the BYOME FX are per-voice, but have a global gain at the output mixer? If so, that is fantastic.

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