DUNE 3 is now available!!

[vurt]

909

[ionekvr]

79 for update....too much.....should be 49....lets wait for sale soon

tell us all how your brilliant business mind decided 49 was the right price, bearing in mind you have no idea how much time was spent on creating the update (unless you work for Synapse and are privvy to such info)

looking forward to your presentation

I don't know how deejay2 arrived at $49 for the upgrade, but I also arrived at about $49, and it has nothing to do with how much time it took them to create the update -- which I'm sure was very substantial. No doubt it was a great deal of work and a great deal of creativity.

Market economics doesn't care very much about how much work you put into something though. It cares what the market can tolerate, who is willing to pay what, and that's a complex equation and sometimes very hard to predict. Some excellent products fail because the price was either too high or even too low. There is always a sweet spot, and it's hard to predict. Ultimately, if Synapse is happy with the upgrade response they're getting at $79, and they are making a satisfactory profit, then it's the right price for them! Of course! Then they should stick with $79. They can charge $0, $49, $79, $109, $1000 -- whatever they want. But will the market respond? Only they will know and see their bank account balance at the end of the day.

When you go see a Marvel movie and pay $15 for a movie ticket, you're seeing a $200 million film. But you'll also pay $15 for a $5 million film that might actually be way better. It's what the market tolerates, how many people are willing to pay a certain price. You might also pay $15 for a book or plate of pasta at a restaurant. Doesn't matter how much work went into it, it's what people are willing to pay, and what sellers (producers, developers, artists, distributors) are willing to accept as payment.

For me, $49 is about the right sweet spot considering the feature upgrades, other plugins I own, and I think it's about right considering the current market where some very talented plugin developers are charging very little (or nothing) for really amazing features and updates -- especially considering 4+ years ago when Dune 2 was released. When you have outstanding synths now frequently on sale (especially like Black Friday, which just happened!) for insanely low prices, lower than I've ever seen them, there has been a big shift in the market, not to mention how profit models have changed significantly with the explosion of preset expansion packs, where there's a HUGE profit margin.

Anyway, I believe that $49 is about right, no disrespect to Synapse or anyone else... but more specifically, it's about right for me, personally. I can't speak for anyone else. But if someone else is happy to pay $79 or $179 or $1000, go for it. Personally, I believe they'd get more volume of upgrade sales at $49, then they can swoop in with lots of preset packs later for profit margin.

Again, ultimately, in any business relationship, the seller can do what he wants with the price, and the buyer can choose to pay it or just not buy it. In my case, I agree with deejay2, and in the Dec 2018 market, Dune 3, while definitely awesome, looks and sounds and feels like a $49 upgrade, not a $79 upgrade to me. Again, no disrespect intended. But you and anyone else can feel free to pay $79 if you want to of course, no criticism of buyers or Synapse for going for $79 price. If you're all satisfied, there's no problem.

But they have at least missed out on my upgrade fee for now, and I'm guessing a few more people. Maybe that makes a difference, maybe not.

[chk071]

Question: Is this the first synth that has ever gone beyond version 2? All the synths I own, I have nothing beyond a version 2. Is this a first?

From the list on your site:

PolyKB 3
Halion 6



Apart from that, Gladiator 3 comes to mind. Oh, and XILS 4.

[vurt]

79 for update....too much.....should be 49....lets wait for sale soon

tell us all how your brilliant business mind decided 49 was the right price, bearing in mind you have no idea how much time was spent on creating the update (unless you work for Synapse and are privvy to such info)

looking forward to your presentation

I don't know how deejay2 arrived at $49 for the upgrade, but I also arrived at about $49, and it has nothing to do with how much time it took them to create the update -- which I'm sure was very substantial. No doubt it was a great deal of work and a great deal of creativity.

Market economics doesn't care very much about how much work you put into something though. It cares what the market can tolerate, who is willing to pay what, and that's a complex equation and sometimes very hard to predict. Some excellent products fail because the price was either too high or even too low. There is always a sweet spot, and it's hard to predict. Ultimately, if Synapse is happy with the upgrade response they're getting at $79, and they are making a satisfactory profit, then it's the right price for them! Of course! Then they should stick with $79. They can charge $0, $49, $79, $109, $1000 -- whatever they want. But will the market respond? Only they will know and see their bank account balance at the end of the day.

When you go see a Marvel movie and pay $15 for a movie ticket, you're seeing a $200 million film. But you'll also pay $15 for a $5 million film that might actually be way better. It's what the market tolerates, how many people are willing to pay a certain price. You might also pay $15 for a book or plate of pasta at a restaurant. Doesn't matter how much work went into it, it's what people are willing to pay, and what sellers (producers, developers, artists, distributors) are willing to accept as payment.

For me, $49 is about the right sweet spot considering the feature upgrades, other plugins I own, and I think it's about right considering the current market where some very talented plugin developers are charging very little (or nothing) for really amazing features and updates -- especially considering 4+ years ago when Dune 2 was released. When you have outstanding synths now frequently on sale (especially like Black Friday, which just happened!) for insanely low prices, lower than I've ever seen them, there has been a big shift in the market, not to mention how profit models have changed significantly with the explosion of preset expansion packs, where there's a HUGE profit margin.

Anyway, I believe that $49 is about right, no disrespect to Synapse or anyone else... but more specifically, it's about right for me, personally. I can't speak for anyone else. But if someone else is happy to pay $79 or $179 or $1000, go for it. Personally, I believe they'd get more volume of upgrade sales at $49, then they can swoop in with lots of preset packs later for profit margin.

Again, ultimately, in any business relationship, the seller can do what he wants with the price, and the buyer can choose to pay it or just not buy it. In my case, I agree with deejay2, and in the Dec 2018 market, Dune 3, while definitely awesome, looks and sounds and feels like a $49 upgrade, not a $79 upgrade to me. Again, no disrespect intended. But you and anyone else can feel free to pay $79 if you want to of course, no criticism of buyers or Synapse for going for $79 price. If you're all satisfied, there's no problem.

But they have at least missed out on my upgrade fee for now, and I'm guessing a few more people. Maybe that makes a difference, maybe not.

i know its dc, but im off to see aquaman on saturday

[ionekvr]

i know its dc, but im off to see aquaman on saturday

Me too! Actually looks like DC is finally figuring out how to make a decent movie... cross fingers!

[vurt]

i know its dc, but im off to see aquaman on saturday

Me too! Actually looks like DC is finally figuring out how to make a decent movie... cross fingers!

we can but hope!!

[pdxindy]

I think Caine123 could have provided more accurate info, but the larger point he is making is valid... Hive 1.2 is indeed a really huge update for free. What people are getting for free with Hive 1.2 is far greater than what people got with Dune 2.5. People are smart enough to go look it up. I'm not criticizing Dune 2.5 -- which was great. But let's be honest here, if we look at U-he's track record, they consistently give long-term big updates (for heaven's sake, just look at the Zebra lifespan, very few plugins match the generosity of free updates for Zebra over the last several years).

But back to the main point of this thread... this is not U-he vs. Synapse. Synapse is also a really great company. They compliment each other. I love both of them. I hope this thread doesn't go down the trolling path of one plugin vs another.

Yeah... Hive 1.2 is substantial. It now has proper MPE support. It also now has a top notch browser. Plus the wavetables and uhm scripts and more.

Sure it's nice in the moment to get a free upgrade. Over time though, all developers have to make money and Synapse deserves to get paid for their work on Dune 3. I think the upgrade price is on the high end of a fair range. There is a solid bunch of new stuff. I would have been more attracted to Dune 3 if GUI and workflow had been more of a focus. Browser, GUI, reworking the modulation, MPE, plus some small issues.

We have such an abundance of great synths these days that we can all afford to be picky about relatively small differences.

[AnX]

When you go see a Marvel movie and pay $15 for a movie ticket, you're seeing a $200 million film. But you'll also pay $15 for a $5 million film that might actually be way better. It's what the market tolerates, how many people are willing to pay a certain price. You might also pay $15 for a book or plate of pasta at a restaurant. Doesn't matter how much work went into it, it's what people are willing to pay, and what sellers (producers, developers, artists, distributors) are willing to accept as payment.

ppl who make movies do not set ticket prices, nor do authors, or chefs (unless they own the restaurant)

i can see the same film here in 3 diff cinemas for 3 diff prices....

you dont really know much about business do you....

[chk071]

I wished that people would stop to feel entitled to speak for "us customers", but rather see that they only speak for themselves, and should rather consider voting with their wallet, instead of words, which won't help to convince, or change the mind of anyone. If you feel like u-he gives you better value for money, well... they have enough synths for you to buy. Frankly, i don't get this shit though. I'm sure people wouldn't talk like that, when they'd visit the one, or two, or three man companies so typical for the audio plugin industry. And, even if it's a company with 30 people, it'll still be tiny, not a money making corporation with only CEO's and bosses. At least that seems what people usually think, that big companies only consist of CEO's and bosses. Not of thousands of normal employees as well. Wicked world.

[djanthonyw]

Question: Is this the first synth that has ever gone beyond version 2? All the synths I own, I have nothing beyond a version 2. Is this a first?

Sylenth1... 3.041

[rob_lee]

Question: Is this the first synth that has ever gone beyond version 2? All the synths I own, I have nothing beyond a version 2. Is this a first?

Sylenth1... 3.041

f**k me Anth you still on KVR? Wanna buy a flute?

[djanthonyw]

Haha, yes. I still visit daily, I just don't post as often.

[ionekvr]

When you go see a Marvel movie and pay $15 for a movie ticket, you're seeing a $200 million film. But you'll also pay $15 for a $5 million film that might actually be way better. It's what the market tolerates, how many people are willing to pay a certain price. You might also pay $15 for a book or plate of pasta at a restaurant. Doesn't matter how much work went into it, it's what people are willing to pay, and what sellers (producers, developers, artists, distributors) are willing to accept as payment.

ppl who make movies do not set ticket prices, nor do authors, or chefs (unless they own the restaurant)

i can see the same film here in 3 diff cinemas for 3 diff prices....

you dont really know much about business do you....

Those were examples, AnX. The point of the examples is to show the common market dynamics across different kinds of products (big budget films vs low budget films vs books vs food vs plugins, vs fill-in-the-blank vs whatever, etc.), which ALL boils down to the relationship between a seller and a buyer. You can learn all about the concepts in an intro college economics class or a good free market economics textbook on Amazon. It has *nothing* to do with how much time or money is invested in a product itself, but simply how much a buyer is willing to pay the seller, and how much the seller is willing to sell the product for... that's it. Synapse could have invested $200 million into Dune 3, or $2000. Doesn't make a difference.

And if Synapse is happy with $79 and they have enough people paying them $79 upgrade fees to make enough profit to stay in business, then $79 is the right price. I'm not criticizing them. As a buyer, I just get to decide if I want to pay that. And because I really like Synapse, I'm spending time sharing my point of view, which may or may not matter to them. And because I'm sitting here waiting to take my son to his gig and have nothing better to do in the next 20 minutes as he packs his gear, I'm enjoying participating in the forum and replying to you.

And BTW, I don't expect a company the size of Synapse to have the resources to do proper market research on this topic, and most people honestly don't understand it... and for small business, it's very much a guessing game to find the market sweet spot. Very challenging unless you have hired real consultants or have a dedicated market research department. So $79 is really a guess for them, based on their own internal metrics, and who knows, it might be perfect. I used to run A/B tests for clients who were doing market research on what price to set for their products, and I was often surprised which way it went sometimes. Sometimes my clients would make more money by INCREASING the price, and sometimes they would make more money DECREASING the price, or even changing their business model completely. Sometimes it is very counterintuitive. And with more customers, they also get more support requests, which costs more money, etc... so there's really a fine balance that they have to achieve. Not to mention TIMING. I think Synapse didn't time this very well with Black Friday just a handful of days ago, and now other holiday sales about to hit. It's no wonder that even Steinberg has moved up their own upgrade releases to BEFORE Black Friday.

In any case, feel free to spend the $79 to upgrade, it's a great product. But I'll sit this one out for now... I just picked up a bunch of plugins over Black Friday and I've got some things to explore yet. But I do hope Synapse drops the price for upgrading, and I'll probably jump right in. I think they're one of the best for sure! I just haven't really maxed out my usage of other plugins yet -- Serum, Falcon, Omnisphere, HALion, Diva, Zebra, etc... and now with Hive 1.2, I'm excited to play around with the new wavetable scripting features. So I just can't justify spending $79 on Dune 3 upgrade at this point... I've got way too much overlap right now... but if it were $49 I'd buy it right now.

Cheers, AnX. All the best to you!

[seismicfm]

Question: Is this the first synth that has ever gone beyond version 2? All the synths I own, I have nothing beyond a version 2. Is this a first?

I think Albino had a 1, 2 then 3.

[rob_lee]

Haha, yes. I still visit daily, I just don't post as often.

Merry Christmas mate