DUNE 3 is now available!!

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Instruments Discussion
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Elektronisch wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:49 pm
Spitfire31 wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:11 am You need micro tuning if you're playing anything else than Western contemporary music which is based on equal temperament – such as Thai, Arabian, Indonesian, Indian…
Ah ok, i had no idea different culture music has different tunings. I always thought the scales whats make the sound that sounds like that and i was able to work on that just with regular tuning.
It's really more about emulating the instruments than it is the culture. Culture comes in to the theory on how it's played because of that.
My VMK+ controllers have a quirk in how the joystick centers, resulting in a few noticable cents off between the two. Probably very annoying for most keyboardists, but has become almost a necessity for me now. Makes "microtuning" available "on the fly". But not all plugins respond to it and automatically centers in the standard tuning. And whether or not the plugin has microtuning doesn't seem to be the factor in how it's recognized.
If you can bend it, you can train yourself to find those "in-between the in-betweens" as second nature.

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Does anyone know some good demos of Dune3 or Dune3 presets (made directly for Dune3 and not Dune2 but compatible) for synthwave?

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oonabe wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:09 pm Does anyone know some good demos of Dune3 or Dune3 presets (made directly for Dune3 and not Dune2 but compatible) for synthwave?
There is one in the sounddesign site "The Patchbay" its called Dark Cyberpunk .

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surreal wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:46 pm
oonabe wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:09 pm Does anyone know some good demos of Dune3 or Dune3 presets (made directly for Dune3 and not Dune2 but compatible) for synthwave?
There is one in the sounddesign site "The Patchbay" its called Dark Cyberpunk .
Thanks, that's the only one demo I know too, and since it's compatible with Dune 2 I guess it was also designed with Dune 2 and not Dune 3, thanks anyways :)

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It was designed before dune3 was released, btw all dune2 presets are upwardly compatible with dune3

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That's really a funny thread, I read not all but much ... :tu: :D

I bought the upgrade and some of the new sounds are nice but others not, for example that acid stuff sounds like plastic, sorry! But vowel is cool! :D

And I think for a V3 Update there could be really more things optimate:
  • The arpeggiators should show more steps on one page.
  • For that, like in Dune 2, the display is to small. Perhaps you could make it more rectangular
  • MIDI Import directly with drag and drop from the DAW browser
  • Some MIDI files are working, some not though there have the same format and length or the MIDI for a pad is working but for the riff not?
  • More MIDI preset files. Are there really just 20 preset patterns? And are the others from the factory presets only include in the presets? If I overlooked some, sorry and yes I can record them but ... :D
  • better browser for presets and wavetables
  • copy / paste with right click
And for that things I won't pay again! And compared with the competition ... :wink:

EDIT:
What I really like is, that many sounds are working good in the mix and overall Dune 3 sounds very good and high quality! :tu:
Last edited by clipnotic on Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

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clipnotic wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:52 pm
  • The arpeggiators should show more steps on one page.
  • For that, like in Dune 2, the display is to small. Perhaps you could make it more rectangular
I think he should take the arp out of the display and add an arp section where the keyboard, LFO's, MSEG's and FX are, full width.

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e-crooner wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:11 pm
clipnotic wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:52 pm
  • The arpeggiators should show more steps on one page.
  • For that, like in Dune 2, the display is to small. Perhaps you could make it more rectangular
I think he should take the arp out of the display and add an arp section where the keyboard, LFO's, MSEG's and FX are, full width.
That's a good idea, too! :tu:

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anomandaris1 wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:19 amWith Microtuning even Western music can sound better, blend better and actually reduce the need for EQ (if we use some kind of Just intonation).
Can you give us some examples? Honestly, I can see no point in it, it mostly seems to get used to make it easier to play parts on a keyboard (avoid the black keys). If there is purpose for it beyond that, and it can actually make my music sound better, I would be very interested in hearing some examples.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.

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BONES wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:44 am
anomandaris1 wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:19 amWith Microtuning even Western music can sound better, blend better and actually reduce the need for EQ (if we use some kind of Just intonation).
Can you give us some examples? Honestly, I can see no point in it, it mostly seems to get used to make it easier to play parts on a keyboard (avoid the black keys). If there is purpose for it beyond that, and it can actually make my music sound better, I would be very interested in hearing some examples.
Play your own examples - good tunings will minimize the beating between not only the base frequency, but also the overtones, so you get smoother and more blended sound - something which can be highly desirable. Optimal tuning for strings is actually close to just intonation (because strings are basically like filtered saw waves, which contain all the harmonics).
Open Kontakt or Hive and load just intonation preset tuning, play something, then disable the microtuning and compare to 12 equal . I don't remember what presets Hive comes with, but factory Kontakt instruments 100 % had some kind of just intonation preset. Notice how awful is F#/Gb key, if you choose C key as a root of scale. (You can change the root notes in Kontakt.) That's why JI is not the most practical thing, also you have wolf intervals that are comma short or flat, so fretless strings and the voice are the best instruments for such type of music (traditional Indian music comes to my mind when I think about JI).
Western theory and practice favoured something like 1/4 or 1/5, or 1/6 comma meantone,which is basically equivalent to selection of 12 notes out of bigger system like 31 equal or 43, or 55 equal.
In pure JI traditional staff notation and music theory fails, because it's based on meantone tuning.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_intonation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meantone_temperament
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarter-comma_meantone

Baroque temperaments (like these used by Bach) are another can of worms - they can be thought as mixture between different temperaments - some keys are even worse than in 12 equal, some are almost as good as pure 5-limit just intonation, but you can play all the notes.
For blues or arabic music, I can recommend only temperaments (equal or unequal), Just intonation is not practical, if you want to limit yourself to a small gamut of pitches, if your music has anything to do with any modulations or complex chord changes.
Weird inharmonic FM drums or real pitched percussion timbres sound better in detuned temperaments - for example the tuning of many instruments like marimbas, xylophones etc in Africa or Indonesia, or Eastern Asia.
Btw, if you don't intend to use any crazy ethnical/theoretical tunings and just stick to few keys and no enharmonic modulations etc, the difference between 12 equal and whatever close to it tuning will be subtle, but probably more audible than the difference between analog synths and vsts, or tape saturation etc. Since people pay money for such crap, it is probably worth experimenting with.
Btw, 12 equal is optimal in sound and modulations not for diatonic music, but for octatonic, hexatonic/nonatonic, basically diminished and augmented temperaments - these two are worse in every other equal temperaments (in 5-limit).

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He's right, especially in asian music you'll find instruments which not playing exactly "in tune"

But the problem is, if you create such sounds, many people are thinking they're disharmonic ...

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clipnotic wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:24 am He's right, especially in asian music you'll find instruments which not playing exactly "in tune"

But the problem is, if you create such sounds, many people are thinking they're disharmonic ...
Well, they can are probably be "disharmonic". But it's all about the desired aesthetic. Some analog synths will also drift out of tune and become basically microtonal...
For sacred/church music performances 12 equal (a cappella singers will adjust their intonation all the time) also fails in terms of "harmonicity", so it's all about the context.
Btw, auto-tune and similar ruin perfectly fine recordings by quantizing them exactly or very near the 12 equal grid.

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Very interesting information :tu:

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anomandaris1 wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:29 amPlay your own examples...
Thank you for providing no help at all.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.

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BONES wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:14 am
anomandaris1 wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:29 amPlay your own examples...
Thank you for providing no help at all.
"Open Kontakt or Hive and load just intonation preset tuning, play something, then disable the microtuning and compare to 12 equal "

That's the help. You said you'd be interested if it made your own music sound better. Play some of your own music (like he suggested) and see what the difference is.

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